@mudfly said:

This is far from full-proof/fool-proof; BUT when it comes to a young QB prospect I like to see some evidence of them beating far more talented opponents than the team they're playing on. I say that because if they are going to NFL teams that don't have a lot of talent - the Matt Leinarts (or others similar) from great teams have experienced culture shock when they have far less tools to work with at the more complex game commanding expedited decisions. AGAIN, there's gonna be exceptions to this.

Having said that, I think back to Bernie Kosar before Miami was the program to be at. His WRs were Stanley Shakespeare and JC Penny while very few teammates would end up finding a long term home in the NFL after upsetting a much more talented Nebraska team overall. There was also John Elway erasing something like a 20 point halftime deficit to a much more talented OSU team to knot a final score in a matchup many didn't give them much of a chance with. Later on, Aaron Rodgers was able to lead a lesser talented Cal team over USC.

As much as Manziel has his inner demons and intangibles that worry people - how many QBs could have taken their team into Bama's home turf vrs a team on their way to a National Championship against the mind/strategy of Nick Saban and BEAT it. One of the most impressive QB performances I've seen in college football considering how much Bama's DBs were getting away with grabbing and holding throughout the game. I've often heard Manziel wouldn't have been squat without Mike Evans; BUT I'm sure Nick Saban would be real quick to remind them Manziel to Ryan Swope was a pretty freakin lethal combination. As recently as 2014, Winston's first crack at beating an opponent with as much overall talent as his team ended up looking like a short bus fire drill. It was a disaster and he needed a Heimlich or 2 or 3. In a game somebody had to win, Mariota looked good vrs FSU. I don't even think he looked horrible vrs Ohio State if a couple guys held onto to some really good throws. That said, the better the opponent - the less the margin of error he had to work with and the final game got away from Oregon. I don't see enough for us to consider trading up for in either guy. Winston is a punk and anyone that researched character should have found the disturbing reason a guy that was lucky to evade a rape conviction doesn't belong as the face of our franchise. Mariota's best throws often seemed like a timing pattern to an area of the field off a particular drop or play-action sequence. The change from college to pros for this type of QB is often easy.

Love em or hate em, we're only about 1 paragraph into Manziel's first chapter heading into a QB draft class that doesn't thrill many of us. I don't see any reason to detour off the Farmer/Pettine plan to build this team the right way especially considering the current supply of projected first round QBs available. That said, it wouldn't kill us or Manziel to draft Bryce Petty where he's projected in lieu of reaching up into round one. Manziel's rookie year wasn't any different than Brett Favre's. When Favre got to Green Bay for a 2nd chance, he said he asked Ty Detmer "what's a nickle?" My guess is if he wasn't over-partying and sleeping through team meetings all week as a rookie - he knows this before season #2? Lucky for him, he went to the right setting and was able to reach a second chapter which ultimately became a great career/story. He threw a ton of INTs early on and got called "Wild Thing" but he improved his TD to INT ratios with time and experience. Favre said it constantly - that the QB that reminded him the most of himself was Manziel. I'm sure that includes the inner frat boy as much as the improvise behind center. I don't think this challenge for Manziel is impossible. The reality he is the one Cleveland drafted; and there isn't a big enough body of work for final conclusions. Maybe that bedroom gymnastics partner of his keeps him from missing the bar scene.

@mudfly said:

Id say hindsight is a good tool for rating the past though.

lmao...

@tiamat63 said:

The more I've looked into him, the more I like him - especially at #43.

@flugel said:

@mudfly said:

Great stuff!

Just a piggyback and some random thoughts here:

IMO, the difference between Whitner and Ward as well as the difference between Pettine's back-end coverage philosophy and the previous one - enabled us to witness a Pro Bowl season from Gipson. Love our Safeties; BUT adding depth here might not be a bad idea considering Whitner's age and the injury that ended Gipson's 2014 season prematurely.

I'm not sure the supply of answers at QB meets our demand - so why not continue to try to make this an easier team to QB? When McCown played for an easier team to QB in Chicago - he easily outplayed the Jay Cutler that was holding their salary cap hostage. When he went to the Tampa Bay offense that ranked 31st at running the football for much of 2014 - he blended in with stink, stank, stunk... Moral of the story, is the chance to lead a balanced attack is better than starting every play with 1 hand tied behind the back.

Farmer's understanding that you just can't replace Alex Mack with anybody was much needed evolution in our front office. Using a similar philosophical current, it was also refreshing to see a need to prioritize what we put inside our offensive tackles on both sides of Center. All the while we had Steinbach here, we were really good/consistent at running between the tackles and getting interior linemen to the next level of defense. We were also killer good at pulling and trapping. Even the Hank Fraley that Philly had already demoted to 2nd string came here; and was able to pull from his Center position which was as unique as it was impressive back in 2007. Talk about a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I'm very thankful we have a front office mindset that knows the importance of adding a Bitonio.

Best of all, Farmer showed me an actual philosophical plan where his ego didn't over-rule input from a head coach/coaching staff he's counting on for make it happen. I saw a strategy that seemed to have clear-cut objectives to improve running game and pass defense coupled with the balls to stick to it. Anytime we hear "play like a Brown" just look at a team that got to 6-3 and even 7-4 despite how FUBAR our injury volume got coming off only 4 wins in 2013. There were no excuses as the competitive bar significantly improved to several playoff caliber opponents needing to erase late second half leads like Baltimore, Indy, Carolina or break 4th quarter ties with FGs as time expired like Baltimore and Pittsburgh needed to (thanks to narcolepsy on our STs). If we add a play maker, we might even pull out more close games by turning an expected short gain into an unexpected long TD the way Torrey Smith or Indy's WRs were able to exploit tired legs late (after being contained most of the day). Our DBs had anywhere from a 10k to a half marathon on their legs in the 4th quarter vrs Indy.

It's refreshing to have confidence in our front office and staff heading into a draft.

@kvoethe said:

Thanks for that ....there's a lot to be optimistic about with this team.....

@kvoethe said:

I hope we do. In the Indy game that we lost 25-24 Cundiff missed a 40 yard field goal which cost us big time as well missing field goals in 5 straight games going into the Colts game. I like Hartley but he just does not have the leg strength.

@mld-woody said:

Ok fair enough...Id say hindsight is a good tool for rating the past though. And "estimates" are all i got for the future.....

Simply comparing "what we know"(hindsight included) to see which position groups got better....

I said WR -DB- RB- MLB got better

OL- DL got only 1 player better

TE -QB stayed about the same....

and OLB got worse.....

So rather than just saying Im wrong then leaving, how about saying which ones you disagree with? and how would you change them? and if your not using hindsight or speculation, how did you come to it?....curious

@kvoethe said:

There are a couple good ones this year......Id be game for sure.....

@opal312 said:

No, he isnt signed yet...but as of end of day today he is 100% ours and can no longer sign with any other teams.....so you can relax because he is still a Brown and wont be playing anywhere else ......

@miktoxic said:

great positivity! can you do one of these each day BEFORE the draft? (cuz this is the time where there is nothing really to talk about and fans start scratching each other's eyes out over different opinions of players to be had)

i think mingo and gilbert become all pros this year.

@the-gipper said:

They talked about possible take of Cam Erving at 19 and thought Cam would have been the better pick being universal on the OL..

@mudfly said:

need some meds?

@mudfly said:

@the-gipper said:

On yesterday's Kiper/McShay Mock draft they had the Browns taking Shelton and Andrus Peat and 12 and 19.

@miktoxic said:

i've also seen a bazzillion other mocks on espn/nfl network where we take parker @12 and brown @19.

see???? This is exactly the shit Im talking about......makes me itch every time......

@the-gipper said:

saw that.

i've also seen a bazzillion other mocks on espn/nfl network where we take parker @12 and brown @19.

shelton and peat trump that hand everyday.

White-Beasely-Dupree/Shelton, Shelton/Beasely-Dupree-somebody else, OT....

This draft goes great, it will change the dynamics of the Browns

like we haven't seen before.