Bobrov - 1950s - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument.

Zezel - 8 seconds in professional soccer - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument.

Bahrs - kickers, not football players - Did you play professional football? I assume you didn't, which means they are, at least, better "football players" than you.

Arena - lacrosee, what's next curling? - Ethnocentricism at it's best, ladies and gentlemen. Lacrosse is a tougher sport than football any day of the week. There's just no interest in it, because most dumb Americans can't understand it.

Donelli - 1940s - Doesn't negate the fact that it disproves your argument.

Twellman - didn't play professional baseball - Was offered a professional baseball contract. If you're arguing about guys who were drafted and never player, Twellman's just as legitimate of an example. If you'd like to discount your examples by removing Twellman from the argument, that's fine with me.

Hitting a baseball is very athletic as is throwing it, catching it and running after it. Stealing bases is very athletic as is playing defense, I'd put Mike Trout and Giancarlo Stanton up against any athlete in terms of strength, agility and speed.

If we're picking and choosing what aspects to compare, I'd put any professional soccer player up with any professional football player in terms of leg strength, endurance and juggling.

If endurance was such a key component of overall athleticism we'd be talking about triathletes and marathon runners as being top dogs.

It's one component, just as brute strength is. And I firmly believe that the upper-echelon of triathletes and marathon runners are much more athletic than most baseball players.

Concerning Ward and Winfield, my original point stated playing professional or collegiate sports at a high level. I'd consider a Heisman Trophy a greater accomplishment as being an awesome youth soccer player.

I'd consider playing two sports professionally a greater accomplishment than winning a Heisman trophy winner - that's why I named people who did do that. But if winning a Heisman is your end-all be-all for athleticism, I'm guessing you're crazy excited for Manziel, then. Good to know.

Bobrov - 1950s

Zezel - 8 seconds in professional soccer

Bahrs - kickers, not football players

Arena - lacrosee, what's next curling?

Donelli - 1940s

Twellman - didn't play professional baseball

Hitting a baseball is very athletic as is throwing it, catching it and running after it. Stealing bases is very athletic as is playing defense, I'd put Mike Trout and Giancarlo Stanton up against any athlete in terms of strength, agility and speed.

If endurance was such a key component of overall athleticism we'd be talking about triathletes and marathon runners as being top dogs.

Concerning Ward and Winfield, my original point stated playing professional or collegiate sports at a high level. I'd consider a Heisman Trophy a greater accomplishment as being an awesome youth soccer player.

You make points and conclusions based on your desire.

It has already been determined that the ONLY thing definitive that has been established is that many soccer players are Preening Pansies.

End of discussion.

Baseball is a wholly unathletic sport compared to the rest. Requires little physical endurance and there's a low chance of serious injury from body to body physical contact. The main culprits of injury are self inflicted arm and shoulder injuries and deflected balls/hit by pitches. I also don't know of many athletes who started with baseball and transitioned to football...or basketball for that matter.

The greatest number of transitions seem to occur from football to another sport.

Deion was a slightly above average baseball player, very slightly.

Charlie Ward and Dave Winfield never played more than one professional sport, so that argument is irrelevant. You can't make the argument they would have excelled in the pros because you have no idea. If you did have an idea, you'd be employed by ESPN. Secondly, getting drafted by the MLB in any round outside of the first is hardly an an example of your athletic prowess. There's guys I've grown up with and still hang out with that were drafted and are wholly average at the sport.

Vsevolod Bobrov played olympic soccer and hockey for the USSR.

Peter Zezel played in the NHL and professional soccer.

Chris Bahr played professional football and soccer, as did his brother Matt.

Bruce Arena played olympic soccer and lacrosse.

Aldo Donelli is a member of the soccer Hall of Fame and played for the Steelers.

Taylor Twellman turned down a contract from the Royals to play college soccer, and then eventually olympic soccer.

Just because you don't know of people who played soccer as well as another professional sport doesn't mean they don't exist. If we limited everything we talked about to what you know, we'd be in for some very dull conversation.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Does this discredit Mariota?

Nearly any Defensive Lineman wrestled in High School....and all of them will tell you that wrestling helped them in preparation for the NFL. Mike Golic was just saying so yesterday on his show. Many others have credited their track and field careers with helping them.

And the biggest crossover of all: How many tight ends were Power Forwards in college. Antonio Gates and Jordan Cameron are just a couple off the top of the head.

I have zeros horses in this race and really dont care either way....but here's a well timed article for you guys to fight over....

..."Mariota credits soccer for NFL preparation".....

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000495573/article/marcus-mariota-credits-soccer-for-nfl-preparation

To the comments relating to the "point" of this thread, or where it got to... this is all I can say.

My points were that: 1) Soccer is growing 2) Baseball is dying 3) Soccer is popular among the youth. Notably, more popular than baseball.

I never tried to refute the point that baseball is still currently more popular in the US

As far the the whole dangerous/physicality thing, that was in response to Steve originally, and then Gipper trying to take it too far. If you are going to debate which is more dangerous, I don't think looking at only the number of deaths (I assume by stray pitches to the dome) can be used to say one is more physical/dangerous than another. To debate this point, I posted two seperate sources of data showing college soccer and high school soccer having more injuries than their baseball counterparts. I also posted a another source showing soccer as having one of the highest concussion rates. I think these sources pretty much settled that, unless someone would like to post their own sources.

I found that most of Gipper's points were anecdotal or not backed by evidence. If he, or anyone else, wanted to actually dispute the first three points, be my guess.

I tried not to jump around in the points I was making. I was just disputing the points of other posters, which were all over the place at times. Props to anyone that actually read through the last couple of pages, haha.

Baseball to football? Baseball to basketball.

I'd put the NBA vs MLS in a combine style performance evaluation any day.

Charlie Ward Heisman Trophy winner and solid NBA Career

Deion Sanders Hall of Fame Cornerback and 162 Game MLB average .263 11 2Bs 10 HRs 47 SBs

Bo Jackson All-Star in both NFL & MLB considered by many as greatest athlete of all time

Dave Winfield Hall of Fame MLB drafted by the Hawks (NBA) & Jazz (ABA) & Vikings (NFL).

Yeah they pretty much sucked. Soccer players may attempt to be place kickers in the NFL but they aren't playing any sport other than soccer and I can't think of one reason why any great athlete would choose "Europe's Pastime"

Becaus the skills aren't as transferable from soccer to football as they are from basketball to football. It's going from a predominantly endurance-based, lower body dominated sport to a quick burst, power-based primarily upper body dominated sport.

And before you get off on it being a "whole body" sport, its not. It requires core and lower body strength, but the majority of skill and technique is hand-eye coordination.

I can't recall many NFL players making the leap to professional organized soccer, either.

As an added benefit, almost none of the people you mentioned were proficient at both sports. Some were barely proficient at one.

Bottom Line: I agree that soccer is far ahead of any other sport in one category........and for the name of this category I defer to my cousin....who is English: They have more Preening Pansies than any other sport:

Im lost.....are there any points being made here?...

Is it that soccer sucks? or Baseball is more popular? Or some sport is more dangerous than another?.....wtf ????

You reject my conclusion that baseball is dying and soccer is growing. You have said that baseball is just as popular with kids as soccer. I am waiting to see any evidence to help support these claims.

Except...of course, that is NOT what I said.....I said baseball as spectator sport still far far out matches soccer.....and I surmised that there are probably still many more kids going to see baseball games than soccer games.

When one sports get millions and millions more spectators....that is clearly going to be true.

What determines how dangerous a sport is? Are we just talking youth or overall? Is it the number of absolute worst injuries in a sport (death) or the number of injuries overall? Is it concussions, because the chances of suffering a concussion in soccer is much higher than baseball (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987636/). I didn't bring up "danger", I was responding to what Steve said. Is danger just overall injury rate? In that case:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1941297/

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/PublicHealth/research/ResearchProjects/piper/projects/RIO/Documents/2012-13.pdf

Now, this is where you post anecdotal evidence about your kids or something, and act like you've proven a point. Go ahead...

Sorry, too busy following the LPGA.

WSS