@miktoxic said:

Same here. Hell, it would really suck to have a 10-win season and fall short of the playoffs, a la 2007. I wouldn't put it past this division to have four 10 win teams.

Cook and Hackenberg are my #1 and #2, respectively, regardless of any previously unheralded phenom who comes out of the woodwork this season. The only ones who could jump them would be:

• Cardale Jones with a full, solid season of productive play.
• Jonathan Goff with an absolutely crazy, Heisman-level season. (It would show the career progression, not a flash-in-the-pan success)

There will be guys who climb based off of stellar seasons and ultimately fail in the NFL. Guys like Malik Zaire, Dak Prescott and Trevone Boykin are athletically gifted and play in strong conferences. A crazy season is not out of the picture, and they would fly up boards.

Similarly, smaller school guys like Fredi Knighton, Drew Hare, Tommy Knighton and Josh Dobbs could go off and be thrown in contention.

But I wouldn't rank those guys ahead of Cook or Hackenberg, simply because of their limited resume.

@tour2ma said:

Gig 'em Browns...

Love it

hopefully the browns can put the hood ornaments on this team next year. but we do have to watch out (and i'm not going to jinx them) for an unexpected hole that opens up and is a dire need for drafting a player before the qb or wr.

hackenberg and cook could be bums in people's eyes by the draft or succumb to injury, plus add 2-3 more guys that people will fall in love with and it will be another 'race to find the franchise qb' draft again next year.

@miktoxic said:

I'm not advocating the tanking of a season. I'm just saying that a mediocre season is not in our best interests, despite what some people may think. I'd be less happy with an 8-win season than I would a hard fought 4-win season.

Not taking a QB just because you're worried he may be a "flavor of the week" kind of guy is a good way to miss out on a franchise QB. Don't let the fear of striking out prevent you from stepping to the plate. It's pretty easy to spot those kind of flash in the pan guys. Den LeFevour, Tony Pike, Graham Harrell, Kellen Moore, etc...all of those are guys who are perfect examples of flash in the pan success.

If you're a GM and you take a guy off of one explosive season and no other body of work, he better be 6'5", have a rocket arm, and have won the National Championship (ahem...Cardale). But the top QB's in the draft are normally the top QB's in the draft because of their bodies of work as a whole. Guys like Hackenberg and Cook are solid bets because of the systems they've played in, the athletic talent they possess, the level of competition they've played and their physical stature.

At this point, I'd rather be picking a QB in the 2016 draft than the 2014, that's for sure.

@the-gipper said:

Just curious....why do you call yourself "Finland" in the native tongue?

(and yes, good points)

My wife is half-Finnish, we visited her cousin just outside of Helsinki about 10 years ago and I had a great time, and "Suomi" is usually available as a username on U.S. message boards.

@tour2ma said:

The Steelers in 2004 followed that exact pattern. They had been building up their defense/OL/running game over a 3-4 year period then finally decided to go for the cherry on top in 2004.

A really not very good yet rookie BR still was able to get that team to 15-1....via their defensive and running prowess. A still average BR got them a SB title (with the worst performance by a winning SB starting QB in history)...via their defense and running prowess.

A very much improved BR was the lead catalyst in their 2008 SB title.

So, I have no problem following that model. Whether that cherry on top is JMZ or someone else remains to be seen.

@tour2ma said:

I don't think I worded that well. I think he knew exactly what he was getting as a QB talent. None of us fully understood the baggage he has had to deal with, Pet included. I don't think even JF understood the depth of the problem. I think he does now. But like his idol Farve, he will still be a handful on the field. Hard to reign that improv style back to a manageable level.

@suomi said:

Just curious....why do you call yourself "Finland" in the native tongue?

(and yes, good points)

@wargograw said:

Probably no smoking gun....but it had his fingerprints all over it. Farmer and Pettine may deny it was Jimmah that snarled them into taking JFF....but what Lola wants, Lola gets.....and the owner is Lola.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

4-12 may be a better scenario than 7-9, 8-8, or 9-7, honestly.

I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.

Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.

It's the paradox of adding a QB last...

@texasag1969 said:

I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.

Ag, I admire your persistence. You even had me going for a while... but upon further review...

Pet only has control over who sees the field, not the final 53. Of the roster choices he has, I do trust Pet to put the best QB on the field... just as he did in 2014.

I was as big a Hoyer backer as anyone here and the choice of McCown as a bridge QB is clearly better to me... stronger psyche... stronger arm... better $$$ value. Any "mentor" capability is frosting, not cake.

While I do agree with the roster decision to keep JM another year to see if the "dedicated" version is the QB at the end of the bridge, the idea that anyone in a position of authority with any organization would spend a first on any player knowing that the player would need a year to work through personal issues before getting serious about competing for playing time is ludicrous. At least not with a player with all the translation questions Johnny brought with him... none of which have been answered to date.

Gig 'em Browns...

Let's not forget that this is a rebuilding project. So far, I'm very pleased with the progress that Farmer and Pettine have shown. The Browns organization has been in shambles for over a decade, but under the Farmer/Pettine regime I sense a change for the better. Farmer has made several shrewd player acquisitions, and Pettine has blended a few stars, a few veteran free agents, and a bunch of young talent into a team that can beat any opponent on any given Sunday.

I sense a new spirit, a more competitive attitude, a team that will explode - and the "pundits" will be eating CROWELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO BROWNS!!!

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

throwing a records prediction in with a scenario of picking the best qb next year is kinda reaching. first off we're all just guessing about the record and second who knows who will be the next golden-boy flame-out 'franchise' qb next year?

i'd never substitute wins for a shot at a draft pick. you lose faith in the fanbase and it's just a shitty way of going about things. the only team that has 'won' in the draft by doing this is the colts and they still haven't done shit. hell we almost and should have beat them last year and we were sportin brian hoyer so...............

I'd rather less than 5 wins or more than 9. That middle section does a team no good. You're rarely good enough to make the playoffs, but likely picking in the 6-14 range.

Playoffs or a shot at the best quarterback in the 2016 draft. That's my goal for the Browns this year.

@texasag1969 said:

Another very well stated post. In a rather short statement, you've said it all.

Thank you!

Mike

@texasag1969 said:

I like your statement & especially the 2 sentences I highlighted. Johnny & Pettine have both shown me they share the qualities of pride & determination. I have a lot of faith in both as those 2 qualities are either there or they aren't. Without them, you're very limited. With them, the sky's the limit.

Mike

WSS

@wargograw said:

Of course not. Just internet bullshit.

@texasag1969 said:

Remains to be seen. First off, JMZ was Haslam's choice, not necessarily Pettine's or Farmers. And a first round pick was invested in him, so that investment isn't going to be shunted to the side offhandedly. Yes, they will try to see if the JMZ thing can work....though I don't think they are putting all their eggs in that basket. The philosophy is: we will get a steady veteran hand....see if he can mentor JFF....but, in the meantime we will build this team up around that position to make it the best it can be....then plug in the right cherry on top, be that JMZ or someone else.

@the-gipper said:

I have faith the Pettine has been around the block a few times and knew exactly what he was getting in Manziel. If you trust him with everything else why not trust him with that. Most longtime NFL coaches know it takes years, not months, to develop a real NFL QB. He knew JF would be a handful and he also knew the kid is highly motivated to be the best even to the point of realizing he had to change his lifestyle. What else would explain why he let Hoyer go for a guy willing to mentor? If he really thought JM was a loser he'd have cut bait early on and kept Hoyer. If I have learned anything about Pettine it's that he is unafraid to make choices he feels work best for the team in the long run.

@texasag1969 said:

Well, the Browns have tried the "flashy pick" obviously by taking your boy JFF...and picking up Pryor......but beyond that , the rest of their draft from that year and this past year plus other moves seem to based on exactly what you say.....building the base defense and offense. Maybe a few misses can occur....maybe JFF was one of those, maybe Gilbert. But overall, I agree, I see a "team building" pattern going on.

@mudfly said:

for real.

has anyone ever been so flippin bored and not done anything all day except watch espn? this is how it works: mike and mike come on at 6am and they have a list of topics that they talk about, debate with each other and guest pundits. then following mike and mike it's 'first take', which is simply the worse show ever created with two blowhards, one from ny and one from tx(?). they basically take the mike and mike topics throw them in a bucket mix them up and then rehash everything they said with their little spin on it. same guests that were on mike and mike are there and they all have the same opinions. so if someone at 6am say "i don't think the browns will do anything this year" at 5:30 pm on PTI some fat fuck is going to say the same exact thing.

nothing is original and they all follow each other like lemmings. when the browns finally do turn the corner, there will be a LOT of crow to eat on that and many other networks and i for one will be there to make sure they eat every bite.