@the-gipper said:

Just happened to come across this: he agrees with you, has Sam #9 and Carroll #1

http://sportsandwrestling.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=37160&forum_id=3

Kick out RR88, The Drive, or The Fumble . . . Original Browns might still be in town.

Maybe... but he did "inept" his way to a SB shortly after leaving.

Not him. Biscott had already purchased the team.....Modell was just a caretaker for a bit. He was El Cid....just a propped up dead man.

Zombo said:

I think it is how we lost ...

Exactly... that's why The Fumble got its lone vote from me. Built to the height of elation over 28 glorious, second-half minutes and then crashed in a split second.

In Red Right there was time for an "Oh No... We're passing?"

In The Drive there was an impending sense of doom that built late and carried over into OT.

The Move? Well... there was much time to see what was coming... much writing on the proverbial wall... so it lacked the "shock value". But what it lacked in impact has endured like a faucet that you cannot stop from dripping with only a few respites...

Here's to the current respite being full blown.

@the-gipper said:

I don't know that if the Browns won 2 Super Bowls in that era that it would have made Art Modell any less inept at what he was doing.

Maybe... but he did "inept" his way to a SB shortly after leaving.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000503270/article/pain-rankings-no-1-the-cleveland-browns

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Of course the bad thing about the move is that it has essentially screwed us up for 20 years in terms of being competitive. While the move is not responsible for all the instability in terms of the HCs and GMs and QBs etc......it was the Genesis for all those problems.

We have just not had a proper person come in here and resolve all those issues.

I mean.....what would have happened if they drafted Tom Brady instead of Spurgeon Wynn in round 6 of the 2000 draft? Would he have become Tom Brady....or not?

Nothing else comes close because that was actually taking my team from me. Don't see how anyone could see it any other way.

Zombo said:

And since then the Cardinals have had as bad a time of it as the Browns ever had. The playoff games mean nothing much really....but that Super Bowl does.

They would have won that game if the had not fumbled and farted all over themselves on Harrison's runback. They were so inept. That run should never have happened. And, they choked in the final minute letting BR and Holmes score that last second TD.

Those are as bad as Red Right 88 or the Drive/Fumble/Drop/Choke.

Zombo said:

@tour2ma said:

I don't know that if the Browns won 2 Super Bowls in that era that it would have made Art Modell any less inept at what he was doing.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2529771-browns-and-cardinals-go-back-and-forth-on-twitter-ends-terribly-for-cleveland?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-league

Let's hope that "changing the culture" thing results in some scoreboard changes this year. It's time.

Zombo

@mudfly said:

I think it is how we lost ... how great we were before the Super Bowl era ... the fact that we have never been to a Super Bowl ... "The Move" was probably the most painful thing that happened to any sports base, ever ... and the subsequent laughable team that has followed is salt in the wounds for the loyal fans that have endured it.

Four Super Bowl losses means you won four AFC Championships ... I'll take one of those.

Zombo

@gftchris said:

Id only say that after reading this thread, it's apparent that the most pain comes from "almost" making it, then losing.....IE...the drive, the fumble and Red Right 88.....I dont see anyone saying the greatest pain was going 4-12 or just losing.....and thats because of expectation....

And, with that in mind, how could the Browns losing a few playoff games even compare to the Bills and Vikings losing all those SuperBowls?........

Maybe it's because we moved AND lost?......but losing 4 SuperBowls in a row has got to be unimaginable pain(Buffalo)

@gftchris said:

Maybe not, but the move was some time afterwards, not a knee-jerk reaction.

True, but my hypothetical was based more upon the success, i.e., Super Bowl, that might have followed a TD on that play, and the degree to which the success might have further entrenched the team paving the way to a new Stadium.

IIRC only one SB winner has ever relocated, Al Davis' Raiders move to LA, and that relocation was not approved by the league. Davis sued to move.

Red Right 88 probably hurt the most because during the Kosar years I was in my early 20's, living life, with a real job, chasing skirts ... had some perspective ... But in 1980 I was a dorky 16 year old living in Steeler Country and the Browns were my life and the Kardiac Kid Season was like a glorious dream come true and it ended in an instant on an ill-advised throw from my hero, Brian Sipe, after one of the worst decisions in Sports History by a coach I loved, riverboat gambler Sam Rutigliano.

I still remember watching the ball floating into Mike Davis's hands in stunned disbelief. My mom and my sister were in the room, they were rooting along with me, but they're, you know, women, and they didn't get the significance of it and didn't understand that the ball had been intercepted until after I had stormed out of the room, accidently knocking over my 1 year old nephew as I left. I went to my room and probably stayed there for two days. Ironically my mom, and that nephew, are now Browns fans ... only two I could convert out of a family of Steeler fans.

But that day, and all the other soul crushers, are what makes us who we are ... and I wouldn't switch teams for anything in the world, which is why I voted for the move ... Fuck you Modell.

Zombo

@tour2ma said:

Maybe not, but the move was some time afterwards, not a knee-jerk reaction.

But, game wise, Im gonna say the fumble too....a seriously bad moment...

@hoorta said:

The Move is up there, though I can't put it at absolute #1, because there were rumors & rumblings. I was disconsolate for a couple days after the Fumble though.

Yeah... same here. The Fumble is easily my #1.

We fought so hard to come back from far behind in that game only to fall a TD behind again late.

The handoff was made...

The hole was there...

I rose out of my chair.

Redemption for The Drive was imminent.

This OT would be ours.

We were going to the Super Bowl.

And then an arm was stuck out.

The ball came out.

I was literally floored by the biggest Browns' gut-punch of them all.

Painful moments from just this year - coming back from 24 points down to tie with the steelers, only to give up a FG at the death; our D utterly dominating the best young QB in the league, only for our O to shit the bed, and have us lose in the last minute; watching the wheels come off the run-game (and the wings(?) come off the passing game) after Mack's leg break; JFF's 7 quarters of shit; textgate; the list is longer than it should be.

In spite of all that, best season for a long time - that probably says as much as you need to know about the Browns!