<![CDATA[Proposal: No Divisions]]>The NBA has now adopted a rule that puts the best 8 teams in each conference into the playoffs regardless of their division, and those 8 will be seeded according to best record. "Division winners" will no longer receive a higher seed just for winning a division.

With the fact that some people are saying that it is a travesty that a 7-8-1 Panther team should be allowed into the playoffs over a 10-6 team just because the Panthers won their "division"....and thus are saying that the division winners shouldn't be automatically entitled to a playoff spot. That the teams with the best records should go in.

Then I thought.....why have Divisions at all if that were the case.

Just have a 16 team AFC and a 16 team NFC and let the 6 with the best record in each conference make the playoffs. Keep the byes for the two with the best record...

This makes a certain amount of sense to me......but then I thought....what about scheduling. Eliminating the divisions could mean eliminating the home and home games against current division opponents. And it eliminates playing one division from the other conference and one from you own conference.

How would scheduling be handled if there were no divisions?

First, I though.....just have a team play all of the other 15 teams in their conference, plus one from the other conference. (maybe according to standing....the #1 AFC team plays the #1 NFC team, #2 plays #2 etc.). But then that would mean that decades could actually go by before you may play certain teams from the other conference.

Then I thought.....keep 4 games against the other Conf......but play them in "Pods". #s1-4 with the best record from the previous year to play #s 1-4 from the other conf. #5-8 play #5-8. #9-12 play 9-12. #s 13-16 play 13-16. That would certainly perhaps increase "parity".

Then what about intraconference games. You would need to play 12.

Also...what about rivalries. Perhaps there should still be some "Designated Rivals" where you would play a home and home game each year. Maybe not the same one every year. Rotate rivalries among say the current division rival set up. The Browns say would play the Steelers home and home one year, then the Bengals the next year, then the Ravens. Something like that.

In the next post I will explore what the Brown schedule under such a system may look like.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/topic/37942/proposal-no-divisionsRSS for NodeThu, 01 Oct 2026 02:33:50 GMTWed, 09 Sep 2015 15:06:18 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:01:54 GMT]]>

@wargograw said:

I know you kept the current conferences. I'm just wondering why since we could have this exact same issue. If you're going to scrap divisions, you might as well scrap the whole thing.

Because you have to have some method of who plays in the Super Bowl.....though, perhaps you are right....lets look at that:

We could just have a 12 team, 1-12 seeded playoff.

Honestly, that would not be so bad. It is what the NCAA FCS, D-II and D-III do it.

How could this have perhaps worked last year:

Top 4 teams would get byes....so

Pats 12-4

Cowboys 12-4

Packers 12-4

Seahawks 12-4

Broncos 12-4

would vie for who gets the byes....some tie breaker system not based on Div/Conf record would have to be devised.

For argument sakes, lets put Denver as the loser of that discussion

Thus: Broncos plus 3 of these 4:

Steelers 11-5

Colts 11-5

Lions 11-5

Cardinals 11-5

would get home field for the first game against these:

Bengals 10-5-1

Ravens 10-6

Eagles 10-6.

And here is a random seed/game matchup:

#1 Pats/#2 Seahawks/#3 Packers/#4 Cowboys get byes

#5 Broncos vs.#12 Eagles

#6 Colts vs. #11 Ravens

#7 Steelers vs. #10 Bengals

#8 Lions vs. #9 Cardinals

And play it off that way...higher seed vs. lower seed on through.

Of course the questions remain: how to schedule properly. How to determine tie breakers for seeding and to determine who gets in?

From last year's results...All teams with double digit wins would make it above. Eagles get in.....Panthers with losing record is out.

No one with an equal record as another team would have been shut out.

I don't think we want to rely on "polling" or a Committee to determine seeding and inclusion the way the NCAA does it. That is the good thing about the current system....there are objective tie breakers.

And we don't want to go by "points" by any means. Could you imagine the fights/hard feelings that would happen if NFL teams tried to run up the score.

But, Yes....this could work interestingly if that scheduling/seeding issue could be addressed.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528917https://brownsboard.com/post/528917Thu, 10 Sep 2015 23:01:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 22:17:39 GMT]]>I know you kept the current conferences. I'm just wondering why since we could have this exact same issue. If you're going to scrap divisions, you might as well scrap the whole thing.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528906https://brownsboard.com/post/528906Thu, 10 Sep 2015 22:17:39 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:58:49 GMT]]>

@bob806 said:

It would be great if the Ratbirds were ousted out of the AFC North, but I bet the powers-that-be would site the Steelers/Ratbirds rivalry as a keeper, like Wash/Dallas.

The point of divisions is to reward a team for finishing on top. That shouldn't be mesed with- we Browns fans remember an 8-8 team winning the Central in 1985, only to blow a huge lead in Miami in the playoffs. Sorry Gipper, that's my opinion. Change for the sake of change is dumb IMHO. I also think the Broncos lost out on a playoff birth in the 80s and went 11-5; aberrations happen from time to time.

I listed all the teams with lesser records getting in over teams with better records above.

But, yes, as a general rule I prefer this divisional setup.

But...the trend is for this to happen just about every year.....so it is not so much of an aberration any more...and if the trend continues....and teams with bad records continue to get in the playoffs over teams with better records....the NFL may do something about it.

Like I said, my proposal was just for shits and giggles......but NFL owners that put their money into teams and coaches and players who see their team getting squadoosh in terms of playoff appearances when they go 10-6 or 11-5 where 7-9 or 8-8 teams are making it on a regular basis....THEY are the ones that might want to rock the boat and change the system.

Imagine what the cry would be when a team from NYC stays home with a 10-6 record and a team from the flyover territory makes it at 7-9. The media there will go crazy. (if it happened the other way around....not so much)

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528734https://brownsboard.com/post/528734Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:58:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:13:18 GMT]]>

@hoorta said:

I'm all for realigning the divisions- or conferences. That's certain to happen anyway assuming the market meisters have their way and relocate a team (or two) to La-La land. Kick the Ravens over to the AFC East- where they belong and add Indy or Buffalo. KC and Oakland have nothing in common geographically- other than a long standing fan hatred. Ditto the Cowboys and Redskins- blame Jerry Jones for that one.

LOL you could create a "Central division" with the Rams, Chiefs, Colts, and Cowboys. Jerrah might be old enough to remember the 'Pokes used to have a rivalry with the Chiefs.

Young 'Uns don't remember that the Browns and Giants used to have a long standing rivalry- that's so far in the past, I can't see it anymore.

It would be great if the Ratbirds were ousted out of the AFC North, but I bet the powers-that-be would site the Steelers/Ratbirds rivalry as a keeper, like Wash/Dallas.

The point of divisions is to reward a team for finishing on top. That shouldn't be mesed with- we Browns fans remember an 8-8 team winning the Central in 1985, only to blow a huge lead in Miami in the playoffs. Sorry Gipper, that's my opinion. Change for the sake of change is dumb IMHO. I also think the Broncos lost out on a playoff birth in the 80s and went 11-5; aberrations happen from time to time.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528720https://brownsboard.com/post/528720Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:13:18 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:07:25 GMT]]>

@the-italian-dawgpound said:

Gipper, your system would work. As somebody said before it works pretty well in EU sports.

Only it would make a lot more games meanigless and December would become a boring month for many fans.

So, I would not "vote" for it.

Why do you think that it would make a lot of December games meaningless?...any more than they are now.?

One point about my "system" is that yes, I am having the bad teams playing the bad teams....but coming out of that means that some of those team will actually have good records....won't they?

And how does it work in European sports? No conferences/divisions? Just one big free for all?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528718https://brownsboard.com/post/528718Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:07:25 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:04:11 GMT]]>

@wargograw said:

Surely a team from one conference will make the playoffs with a worse record than a team from the other that did not make the playoffs. Guess we should get rid of conferences.

EOT.

I did keep the current conferences intact....and in my listing above I only did this history within conferences.

Hoorta below makes a point about division realignment possibly happening when LA gets a team or team....(or....perhaps not.....the teams said to be moving: Rams/Raiders/Chargers are already in the Western Division. Going to LA would not affect that arrangement)

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528717https://brownsboard.com/post/528717Thu, 10 Sep 2015 14:04:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:24:29 GMT]]>

@baconhound said:

It makes sense in the surface but then someone will argue, "that team doesn't play anyone, let's let the computers decide"

No, that would screw Ohio State. Won't happen.

Oh, sorry. Wrong venue. LOL! 😛

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528645https://brownsboard.com/post/528645Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:24:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 08:22:13 GMT]]>

@the-italian-dawgpound said:

Gipper, your system would work. As somebody said before it works pretty well in EU sports.

Only it would make a lot more games meanigless and December would become a boring month for many fans.

So, I would not "vote" for it.

I think you're right there. Our soccer leagues for example can be all sorted a month before the end, or they can be down to the wire. American sports have engineered it to be down to the wire every season. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing can be argued, but I wouldn't change it back to the potentially boring mode.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528639https://brownsboard.com/post/528639Thu, 10 Sep 2015 08:22:13 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 06:48:02 GMT]]>Gipper, your system would work. As somebody said before it works pretty well in EU sports.

Only it would make a lot more games meanigless and December would become a boring month for many fans.

So, I would not "vote" for it.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528632https://brownsboard.com/post/528632Thu, 10 Sep 2015 06:48:02 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 05:44:54 GMT]]>

@tour2ma said:

I like the division set up as is.

Division winners should go into the playoffs, regardless of record.

Whether they should get home-field over a WC with a better record is the question...

@bob806 said:

I'm in a rut too, I don't like changing out of a division format. The NFL is obviously unique, as the 16 game schedule makes every game mean something. 3/8 of the schedule is in the division and heightens the importance. To me, games against Tennessee, Jacksonville, Miami for example just don't have any appeal, probably never will.

NBA, NHL, MLB have so many games that it does make some sense to eliminate divisions.

Nothing is ever going to be perfect- not even your suggestion Gip. I'm with Tour- if you have a losing record- you can never host a playoff game. Then again what happens if two division winners have losing records, and have to play each other in the playoffs?

I'm all for realigning the divisions- or conferences. That's certain to happen anyway assuming the market meisters have their way and relocate a team (or two) to La-La land. Kick the Ravens over to the AFC East- where they belong and add Indy or Buffalo. KC and Oakland have nothing in common geographically- other than a long standing fan hatred. Ditto the Cowboys and Redskins- blame Jerry Jones for that one.

LOL you could create a "Central division" with the Rams, Chiefs, Colts, and Cowboys. Jerrah might be old enough to remember the 'Pokes used to have a rivalry with the Chiefs.

Young 'Uns don't remember that the Browns and Giants used to have a long standing rivalry- that's so far in the past, I can't see it anymore.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528629https://brownsboard.com/post/528629Thu, 10 Sep 2015 05:44:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 07:24:22 GMT]]>Surely a team from one conference will make the playoffs with a worse record than a team from the other that did not make the playoffs. Guess we should get rid of conferences.

EOT.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528610https://brownsboard.com/post/528610Thu, 10 Sep 2015 07:24:22 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:20:58 GMT]]>That's a turd of an idea.

😉

WSS

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528573https://brownsboard.com/post/528573Thu, 10 Sep 2015 01:20:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:23:36 GMT]]>It makes sense in the surface but then someone will argue, "that team doesn't play anyone, let's let the computers decide"

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528542https://brownsboard.com/post/528542Wed, 09 Sep 2015 22:23:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:56:51 GMT]]>

@tour2ma said:

Your Fantasy is showing, Gip...

See the Tim Couch house for sale thread for that.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528519https://brownsboard.com/post/528519Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:56:51 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:40:00 GMT]]>Your Fantasy is showing, Gip...

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528514https://brownsboard.com/post/528514Wed, 09 Sep 2015 20:40:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:54:06 GMT]]>Well, here is the study. I only went back to 2000 to determine if one team got into the playoffs over another with a better record. What I found was that it is starting to happen more frequently. Going to 4 divisions is the likely cause of this phenomena:

2014 Panther 7-8-1 got in over Eagles 10-6

2013 Packers 8-7-1 got in over Cardinals 10-6

2011 Broncos 8-8 got in over Titans 9-7

2010 Seahawks 7-9 got in over Bucs and Giants both 10-6

2008 Chargers 8-8 got in over Pats 11-5 and Jets 9-7

........Cardinals 9-7 got in over Falcons 11-5 and Buccaneers also 9-7 but who would have gotten in with better conf. record

2003 Ravens 10-6 got in over Dolphins 10-6 (but better conf. record.)

So, the switch to 4 divisions IS creating the phenomena of teams with better records staying home while teams with lesser records make the playoffs.

And, by the way this is NOT "Tradition"......per se. This started in 2002 when the league went to those 4 division setup.

The question is: is this what the NFL Owners want......or are these unintended consequences.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528506https://brownsboard.com/post/528506Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:54:06 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:20:54 GMT]]>

@wargograw said:

When have they even been a huge problem outside of last year?

I would have to study it, but I think that just about every year or maybe every other year one team with a better record than another is left out of the playoffs.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528500https://brownsboard.com/post/528500Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:20:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:13:16 GMT]]>When have they even been a huge problem outside of last year?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528495https://brownsboard.com/post/528495Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:13:16 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:09:11 GMT]]>

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Tradition.

What traditions the two of you have in the privacy of your own bedroom is between you.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528493https://brownsboard.com/post/528493Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:09:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:08:06 GMT]]>

@tour2ma said:

Me, too DH... what do you like best about it?

His dick in your mouth! 😆

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528492https://brownsboard.com/post/528492Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:08:06 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:07:06 GMT]]>

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Like it the way it is now.

You mean with my dick in your mouth? 😮

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528490https://brownsboard.com/post/528490Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:07:06 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:06:13 GMT]]>NFC came out like this:

Tm W L T Position Reason

Seattle Seahawks (1) 12 4 0 West Champion conference win percentage

Green Bay Packers (2) 12 4 0 North Champion conference win percentage

Dallas Cowboys (3) 12 4 0 East Champion

Carolina Panthers (4) 7 8 1 South Champion

Arizona Cardinals (5) 11 5 0 Wild Card #1 head-to-head record

Detroit Lions (6) 11 5 0 Wild Card #2

Philadelphia Eagles 10 6 0

San Francisco 49ers 8 8 0

New Orleans Saints 7 9 0 head-to-head record

Minnesota Vikings 7 9 0

Atlanta Falcons 6 10 0 conference win percentage

New York Giants 6 10 0 head-to-head record

St. Louis Rams 6 10 0

Chicago Bears 5 11 0

Washington Redskins 4 12 0

Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2 14 0

Carolina would have finished behind the 49ers.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528489https://brownsboard.com/post/528489Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:06:13 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:04:17 GMT]]>

@taco918 said:

If you went with the pod setup, you might run into problems with teams tanking towards the end of the season to get into an easier pod for the next year. You'd also run into the argument from consistently good teams that they are being punished with tougher schedules for being successful.

I think the best option would be to keep the divisions but remove the seeding, if that hasn't been done already, and/or requiring at least a .500 record to make it into the playoffs. However, as jrb noted, it is infrequent and hasn't reached a point where any changes are really necessary.

Like I said...the owners of NFL teams that go 10-6 while a 7-9 record makes it may not agree with you that it hasn't reached a point where a change in necessary.

And while you are right about the pod situation....teams tank now for draft positions.

And, again, while you say "lose the seeding" what do you mean? That the divisional setup should be kept for scheduling only, but that for determining who makes the playoffs only the 6 best teams make it? If that were the case last year only 1 change would have happened: Carolina out, Eagles in.

But then....if you win a division yet don't get a playoff berth....what is the point of having a division? Again, just scheduling?

AFC would have been fine, looking like this:

New England Patriots (1) 12 4 0 East Champion head-to-head record

Denver Broncos (2) 12 4 0 West Champion

Pittsburgh Steelers (3) 11 5 0 North Champion head-to-head record

Indianapolis Colts (4) 11 5 0 South Champion

Cincinnati Bengals (5) 10 5 1 Wild Card #1

Baltimore Ravens (6) 10 6 0 Wild Card #2

Houston Texans 9 7 0 conference win percentage

Kansas City Chiefs 9 7 0 head-to-head record

San Diego Chargers 9 7 0 head-to-head record

Buffalo Bills 9 7 0

Miami Dolphins 8 8 0

Cleveland Browns 7 9 0

New York Jets 4 12 0

Jacksonville Jaguars 3 13 0 win percentage in common games

Oakland Raiders 3 13 0

Tennessee Titans 2 14 0

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528487https://brownsboard.com/post/528487Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:04:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Proposal: No Divisions on Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:02:29 GMT]]>Tradition.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/528486https://brownsboard.com/post/528486Wed, 09 Sep 2015 19:02:29 GMT