@clevfan4life said:

If my grandmother had wings she would still be an old bat.

@the-gipper said:

I agree on Mingo, he's a 4-3 blitzing OLB'er. What confuses me is that we've used Kruger this year as exactly that...the 5th guy shadowing up to the line. Why on earth? Mingo is the speed guy you use as the 5th guy you bring up to the line and standup....Mingo is the guy who's a threat if he drops back and a threat if he decides a late blitz.....not fucking Kruger. I really really really hope Pettine had nothing to do with what we've done with Kruger this year. Imo it's so stupid that I might retract my earlier statements about him being unfireable for at least another year or so. I really want to hear from him at the end of the year that he ceded to something Oneil wnted to try.

@the-gipper said:

ahhh it's Achilles, did not know that. Still, i'd bet in two years he could come back and give one more year of productivity better than anything we've got. Obviously wouldn't give him a contract based on that bet, i'm just saying. It wouldn't take much to out do our current OLB'ers.

@gftchris said:

Well, he isn't anything right now....but on IR. And who knows what the achilles injury at his age could do to either his run stopping or pass rushing abilities.

A healthy Suggs? Sure, he would get the nod.

And on Mingo.....I have railed about how completely deadheaded this Browns DC has been about how he is used. I don't think we really know how good or bad Mingo really could be, because he is used so improperly...imo.

@the-gipper said:

It may also not. At worst, he's stout against the run and lost a step as a pass rusher - which is still better than Mingo.

@wargograw said:

@clevfan4life said:

Suggs is not "dinged up" he is out completely....for the rest of the season.....with an achilles tear. And at 34 next year, that injury may be a death knell to his career.

@theolliec said:

Like a Bryce Petty or Tajh Boyd, he'll get picked up somewhere. If Tom Savage & Logan Thomas got drafted, Jones will certainly go somewhere. Just maybe not until day 3.

@mohican said:

I don't see any way he goes undrafted. If he falls far someone will take him late to let him sit and develop. He has tons of tools, just needs to learn to use them.

There's also the option that he could go the graduate transfer route and try to build his draft stock somewhere else for a year.

@gftchris said:

Off the top of my head, I'd trade, straight up, for:

Smith -> Hawkins

Flacco -> McCown

Yanda -> Greco/Bito

Jernigan -> Bryant

Suggs, Dumerville -> Kruger, Mingo

Mosley -> Kirksey

Forsett -> Turbin/Crow

Juszkckzkckzak -> Johnson

That's nine. Want to dispute any of them? Who am I kidding, you're you, of course you do

Even if Jernigan isn't starting, Williams is better than Shelton also. There's also a couple of DBs. That's 9. You don't get to just dismiss Smith and Suggs.

But this is really all beside the point, because the Browns have a pretty strong roster on paper as well. We just don't play like it. Also, no one has confidence in us getting an elite player out of a top 5 pick. Baltimore probably will.

@gftchris said:

I dispute a few of these:

A. Jernigan isn't even a starter on his own team. He is listed as a backup to Brandon Williams.

B. Smith is counting his days to retirement. Sure. he certainly has had a better career....but right here, right now? Maybe not.

C. Kruger is more talented than a doughnut whole....Terrelle Suggs in on IR and ain't playing until next year...if ever again. He will be 34 coming off an achilles heel tear.

I will give you Flacco, Yanda, Dumerville, Mosely and probably the RB and Fullback. That is 6.

Smith -> Hawkins

Flacco -> McCown

Yanda -> Greco/Bito

Jernigan -> Bryant

Suggs, Dumerville -> Kruger, Mingo

Mosley -> Kirksey

Forsett -> Turbin/Crow

Juszkckzkckzak -> Johnson

That's nine. Want to dispute any of them? Who am I kidding, you're you, of course you do

@wargograw said:

I ain't counting 9.....where are you getting 9?

Btw, I know they need a QB....but does anyone wanna think about how sick that defense would be if they drafted Bosa? They'll probably have the #1 pick, and thank god they have a worse QB situation than us.

Btw I think I owe you a 6 pack if the Bills keep sucking.

@gftchris said:

Well, as I said, I guess we could do a rundown of all 22 starting positions, but I still maintain that the Browns would win about 15 of those.

Only OL better than ours: Yanda.

Even if somehow you convinced yourself that the Ravens could draw even with the Browns in position by position talent......How does that get them to being one of the top 10 most talented teams in the league......which was the original statement that I argued with.

Except for some sloppy ST play last night and some very terrible clock management by the Cards, that game last night would have been a cakewalk for Phoenix.....errr Arizona.

@the-gipper said:

Timmy Jernigan is pretty solid also. And that Suggs guy, he's had a decent career. It's close, but I'd take him over mingo. Hell I'd take him over Mingo in his current IR status.

@wargograw said:

And you got to 3 for the Ravens....and one had to be the kicker. (I did not include kickers in my list of 22 starters.)

I would completely disagree about their entire front 7. Dumerville and Mosley is about it.

Getting to 15 or 16 will be tough.

@wargograw said:

You are smoking some kinda shit if you think the Ravens are one of the most talented teams in the league. They are NOT.

They may in fact be the least talented team in the AFCN.

Position by position the Browns probably would take like 15 or 16 of the position matchups.....and straight talent.

(the Browns problems are more piss poor coaching.....and organizational dysfunction....not the strict talent on the team)