@tour2ma said:

I think we could get around 10 fourth round picks for our 2016 top 10 pick. Sorry Tour- that's where I see us winding up again. Then there's Mayle. Farmer isn't perfect with his low picks.

@tacosman said:

I would trade Thomas *if* we could get great value in return for him. But we can't. We *might* get a late first round/high second round pick.....I'd rather keep JT for a couple more years.

Some of you guys dramatically overrate the trade value of JT(really any vet...nothing against JT).

There isnt a non-qb in the league vet(so on a big contract already) who is worth more than one mid to late first round pick.....thats how highly draft picks are valued(partly for cap reasons)

So no, if we trade Joe thomas we wouldn't get anything close to two first round picks. Sheeesh.

Yeah- the 49ers got a sixth round pick for Vernon Davis- we might get a seventh for Mingo. I'd want at least two first round picks for Joe- and no team is going to offer that up.

@tacosman said:

How many " "any very high level non-qb vet"'s usually get traded period? Not that many I'm guessing, maybe you could reference your advanced stats and bring up a somewhat interesting and informative discussion for once.

JT will get his 9th straight pro bowl appearance this year and isn't showing signs of slowing down - you don't trade a person like that for a mid-late 1st round pick, hence the reason the Browns would be looking for very high value in return.

@mudfly said:

Cause Im starting to think there is no wheelhouse......(honestly) Im trying to think of a real draft pick that is making a significant contribution to this team right now......

Have to stay in the Farmer era and we know his 2015 staff was not in place in 2014... part of the reason we only picked 6 players in 2014 I'd think and jumped to 12 in 2015. That's 18 total.

Bito is probably his best pick to date despite his uneven season. Duke, Kirksey and Shelton are about the only other ones with serious playing time and there have been signs of players there.

Still early on most of the rest with limited data, but surely promise is evident in others like:

Desir... Campbell...

Ekpre could be an inspired gamble... And to a lesser extent Gaines and Tefler.

Pullard was good enough to get plucked off our PS.

Erving, Cooper and Orchard are our biggest unresolved cases .

So who are Farmer's certified busts? Mayle and West? For sure... Gilbert? Your call on him. MJ our "FB"? As far as I am concerned... yes.

Johnny? Completely special case there that I'd argue is not yet a bust... more "unresolved".

@bbedward said:

you are so damn stupid.....in this context, 'really any vet' clearly is a reference to other elite/top level vets like Joe Thomas. 'really any vet' in this context(see the part after) clearly means "any very high level non-qb vet". It's a compliment to Thomas, hence the 'nothing against JT' immediately following it.

So it's not just math....hmmm. Is there a block/killfile button on this forum?

@tacosman said:

JT isn't "any vet." Not even close to it actually.

Also he has more than 2 years left in him. At least 4 more with the Browns.

Trades may not work like Madden in the real world, but there's a reason why our asking price for JT is as high as it is - because we don't want to get rid of him. You don't see many trades that involve players the caliber of JT, because the teams that have those players value them very highly.

@tour2ma said:

Ha!....so lets trade him for 20 UDFA's....

Cause Im starting to think there is no wheelhouse......(honestly) Im trying to think of a real draft pick that is making a significant contribution to this team right now......

Mack?....Haden?.....Schwartz?.....Bito?....but these are the only ones I can come up with.....only 4?.....

....all the rest of our starters are FA's and UDFA's, I do believe.....(plus, maybe a few who are still unproven, I guess)

Some of you guys dramatically overrate the trade value of JT(really any vet...nothing against JT).

There isnt a non-qb in the league vet(so on a big contract already) who is worth more than one mid to late first round pick.....thats how highly draft picks are valued(partly for cap reasons)

So no, if we trade Joe thomas we wouldnt get anything close to two first round picks. Sheeesh.

@mudfly said:

Gotta be clear that this was earlier this season.....not this week.....and it was the Broncos who initiated the discussion.

Whenever this was at least we were asking for the right position... and if that was before Barrett emerged when Ware was hurt, then our scouting was pretty well on the mark.

Which brings me back to Khalil...

@gftchris said:

We've missed on so many first rounders, trading away one of the few we've hit on for another turn at the wheel just seems crazy.

In that case you can always trade down to where picks are more in our wheelhouse... not that that has been a popular option around here.

1. Cam Erving

2. Danny Shelton

3. Johnny Manziel

4. Justin Gilbert

5. Barkevious Mingo

6.Brandon Weeden

7. Trent Richardson

8. Phil Taylor

I wouldn't....

@mdmusch said:

We can get 3-5 more years of elite LT play or we could get a draft pick that'll probably suck, I'll stick with 3-5 more years of elite LT play - something many people underrate, without JT we probably would have sent some of our former QBs out of Cleveland in a casket.

If JT wanted to leave I would want to trade him to a contender because he deserves it, but JT doesn't want to leave so I'm willing to keep him.

Mack has played down his value so may stick around next year, while Mingo hasn't done anything for us. Regardless the reports say Mack will not waive his no-trade clause.

Joe Thomas is a hall of famer for sure, could be the best technician of all time, however you have to consider ROI.

I want Mack gone because he's probably gone after this year or next at the latest.

Mingo is the same thing, do you really think he'd sign an extension with a team that uses him as a special teams ace.

Joe Thomas really deserves better than to have a new coach and system every two years (often we change year to year). Get a first when you can and we'll all sadly say goodbye. I want him to be here for a winner but I'm not sure that's bound to happen with McCown, Johnny, or any 2016 draft pick.

@d-bone said:

Yeah- and Denver's first round pick is going to be a low one anyway- not worth it.

@mudfly said:

what "elite" players?.........Id say JT is our only one.......can he do it alone?

or are you saying we dont need any elite players at all?......cause I think our LACK of elite players is the main issue, so getting rid of them will make us better?.....huh?

or.....is it we trade elite players for draft picks so, hopefully, we can draft elite players?......

Im confused.....really.....

JT is one, maybe Haden, Gipson is on the edge when healthy. Name one "elite" player besides Joe we have on offense. Barnidge? Really? OK he's having a breakout year, he almost equaled and is going to surpass his entire career stats in one year. Talk about coming out of nowhere. http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/roster/Gary-Barnidge/888027c1-3c8e-4bc2-a336-50004354ddc5 I said it in another thread- you're not going to get value at the trade deadline.

@gftchris said:

JT has been elite for 8.5 years and will likely be elite for ~3-5 more at least. Mack's injury was over a year ago so he's starting to lose that excuse IMO.

LT is a pretty important position and we happen to have the best, I don't see any draft pick as a safe bet upgrade.

Even if we did secure a decent talent with a late 1st pick, the odds of getting a HOFer are slim to none.

@bbedward said:

No doubt....

and Denvers 1st round pick might as well be considered a 2nd round pick.....30-31-32?...it's gonna be somewhere around there....

Id need 2 of those AND a starter to give them our best player....so THEY can win another SuperBowl......

@gftchris said:

JT is hardly our only elite player. On this roster are three DBs who went to the pro bowl last year, a center who would have been but for injury, and others who have been to multiple in the past. These guys clearly aren't scrubs, but they're playing within themselves, particularly on the OL and secondary. Scheme, coaching, confidence? Not sure.

To me....making the pro-bowl doesnt make you elite......just means you had a good plus season......

consistently making pro bowls = elite.......future hall of famer = elite....top 5 at your position(consistently) = elite

Yeah...some of our guys are above average.....even very good.....but not really elite....(imho)

--

As an aside, please don't trade Joe I just bought his jersey (though I'd still wear it even if we did trade him)

@mdmusch said:

what "elite" players?.........Id say JT is our only one.......can he do it alone?

or are you saying we dont need any elite players at all?......cause I think our LACK of elite players is the main issue, so getting rid of them will make us better?.....huh?

or.....is it we trade elite players for draft picks so, hopefully, we can draft elite players?......

Im confused.....really.....

I'd be all for getting Haden out too (love the guys buts he's always been overrated), but his play and injuries severely diminish his value at this deadline

Maybe they will try again this week, maybe not.....but this is NOT something that came about due to this weeks rumor mill.....or because the Browns were/are shopping Thomas.....

As an aside....word is the Browns were asking for 3rd round picks on both Mingo and Mack.....