@tour2ma said:

Well the word "national" was omitted... and you know that if a door is left open Walter will go play in the street.

Meanwhile... feel like someone needs to address cal's lengthy post. Maybe it's rehash, but much of the early part appears discussable. Latter part... not so much.

If no one else does, I may later...

Viability has been the marker. Problem with it has been it is a moving target as neo-natal care/technology advances.

@gftchris said:

You aren't that stupid, Woody, right?

Haha, good point.

@tour2ma said:

Meanwhile... feel like someone needs to address cal's lengthy post. Maybe it's rehash, but much of the early part appears discussable. Latter part... not so much.

@calfoxwc said:

Okay, but your conclusions are giant jumps from the truth.

Being against a radical, offensive change to the defination of real marriage... is not being "anti-gay".

We Americans are very tolerant. Gay whatever, they are free to do whatever, as long as they are not

intruding on others' rights.

For abortion, it's offensive - there are strict limits to what most Americans will accept in terms of emergency legit reasons for it.

Which is extremely rare. Rare as in, more than extremely. Opinions sway with the times. There are times when public opinion will trend upwards in favorability on an issue, then sway the reverse direction as time goes on, and an acceptability of limited parts of an issue, is pushed into complete and open warfare - unrestricted.

Civil unions were the answer - as disgusting as the whole issue is, I saw no problem with that. Gay people have rights too. But........ that wasn't good enough. Even if you made civil unions with the same exact rights of real marraige, which is impossible, considering real marriage easily results in children of the two married man and women...

and is impossible with the gay whatever garbage they want to call it outside of coopting "Marriage"...

but the culture war by the left knows no bounds.

Like weed - most people are tolerant of that. But make it legal for everybody to grow, which will cause

serious criminal trespassing problems? Hell no.

The majority of Americans are tolerant, but that doesn't NOT mean they don't want battles fought over the never-ending push to the extremes of issues by the left.

All that is, is wishful thinking by the left. More and more, this country is being split down the middle, and the folks squarely in the middle are not going to just turn into leftwing zealots because the liberals want them to.

as president, JFK and the dirtbag LBJ. DEM

Then Nixon and Ford REP

dirtbag Jimmy stupid Carter DEM

Excellent Ronald Reagan and fuddyduddy Bush sr. REP

Then Bill Clinton - DEM

Then Bush W. - REP

then, the marxist garbage ObaMao - DEMCOMMIE

The American people keep adjusting course to try to stay on the right course. Right now, the leftist asswipes are taking America farther off course to the left than ever before.

The illegal alien movement is just a spamming of our electoral process - to change the demographics to have a majority totally dependent on the public welfare system - tipping the scales to the dems. Of course they are illegally voting, just as the dems are frantically fighting voter id laws - to support illegal voting.

If no one else does, I may later...

@the-cysko-kid said:

I say go ahead and make it perfectly legal for any reason before the heart starts beating. That's roughly six weeks. After that...you're stuck. Sorry about your luck. Should have acted faster.

Viability has been the marker. Problem with it has been it is a moving target as neo-natal care/technology advances.

@mld-woody said:

You aren't that stupid, Woody, right?

@mld-woody said:

You aren't that stupid Walter. Right?

He is

@mld-woody said:

Yea Liberal cities like Detrioit, DC, LA, and Chicago are a real treat of wealth and luxury for the common man.

@mld-woody said:

Drink for emotional abortion issue Cysko

Yes it is emotional. I'm glad you're able to detach yourself like a serial killer. Good for you.

@vagitron said:

As for the lack of central parties, if the tea party continues to push further to the right, and the democrats push further to the left, it wouldn't shock me to see a break in the parties. Maybe it would shock plenty of people there, and maybe it won't happen because people are just too ingrained in a two party system, I don't know.

@mld-woody said:

I agree with the OP. Clinging to outdated, fading social ideals is no way to get elected.

Conservative social views have died off as liberal social views become the norm throughout history. The issues described in this thread are no different.

As the older generations die off so will this way of thinking. The Republicans will just adapt.

Republicans will be forced to adapt or they will never win another election. In the not so distant future secular view points will be at the political forefront. The tea party exists because of religious extremists that worship the second amendment. Add in race and its a trifecta heinously out of touch with the youth of the nation. Currently the tea party is holding the GOP hostage and the usual establishment Republicans hate it. They sold their souls to the devil to gain control of Congress and in turn ruined the GOP.

Conservative social views have died off as liberal social views become the norm throughout history. The issues described in this thread are no different.

As the older generations die off so will this way of thinking. The Republicans will just adapt.

@westside-steve said:

And members must decide whether those platforms meet their goals or not.

There's nothing that says the Republican Party has to be fiscally conservative.

If the people want free shito and they lose votes because of that?

WSS

Drink for free shot Steve

@the-cysko-kid said:

The ONLY thing I can't stand for is abortion. I don't know how many of you leftys have kids. Probably none of you. But when I look at mine I think their lives and futures are worth fighting for. Most liberals would probably consider fighting for those that can't fight for themselves a noble thing. Unless it comes to an unborn child and then it's "fuck em! Scramble their brains and get em out of here. Their lives are MY CHOICE!"

Drink for emotional abortion issue Cysko

@vagitron said:

I actually read something about this a few years ago, why this is and it's an interesting theory. I hate to talk about it because it involves some pretty heavy economic principles and I don't want to get it wrong, but the synopsis goes kind of like this.....the way this economy is set up the population HAS to grow. We've always been told that the reason for that is the next generation needs to pay for the last...but it's actually deeper than that, and a bit more cynical according to the article I read some years ago. The necessity for an ever expanding population base has to do with keeping our ballooned monetary structure going. This is where it got complicated and I didn't understand everything I was reading. But basically nobody cares how those children live/grow up....they just need to become citizens that eventually go into some kind of "debt". That debt is what keeps our monetary structure going and has kept the U.S dollar the worlds reserve.

I wish I could get more detailed than that but you're right to an extent, I've heard people like Rick Santorum bemoaning all the black children that have been aborted and actually outright said that the loss of that black population has cost us economically. So it lent credence to the article I had read. Unlike a lot of people I do feel badly for the black culture, a lot of them are stuck in a rut. They grow up in shit families and see no future for themselves, so they follow in the footsteps that have been modeled for them and have children at early ages they have no hope of being able to properly raise. So on the one hand people moan incessantly about all these black babies being aborted then quite literally turn around in the next breath remark on these no good savages running around the inner cities. Well........how do you not see that it doesn't do anyone any good in certain parts of that culture to have more and more children. I've made the conscious choice that i'm never going to be in a position to be a good father in this lifetime so i'm not ever getting married and therefore not having children. But compare me with a lot of black males in the inner city and i'm fucking super dad.

@bbedward said:

Personally, I'm up for allowing first trimester abortions and leaving the moral choice up to the individual - while continuing to prohibit state+federal gov't funding for them.

@the-cysko-kid said:

In this day and age there's so much available to you in terms of contraception that theres absolutely no reason to justify accidentally getting pregnant. Besides the myriad of contraception there's plan b. And as I've already said id support abortion up until the point the heart starts beating. After that point you're doing something completely immoral. If it were up to me I'd start sex ed and pushing contraception by 5th grade or so especially in impoverished areas. And id make plan b free and hand it out like candy AND I'd offer a monetary reward for voluntary sterilization. Say...a one time stipend of $25,000. And if all else fais I'd support abortion...up to a point.

Not when idiots want to defund planned parenthood, eliminate sex ed, cut after school programs. You can say wrap it up all you want but a lot of people aren't brought up in the most responsibly sound homes. You hear the "oh it feels like I'm having sex with a plastic bag". Beyond that birth control without social programs to help provide it isn't cheap. It's certainly not cheap for a family supporting itself on say minimum wage and welfare. Abstinence isn't a viable proposal either. Fact of the matter is the pro life movement doesn't give a damn about any of the kids after they are born. Fact.

@clevfan4life said:

In the end this is why we need more than two parties. Two parties cannot encompasse all of our beliefs about how this society should be run. Frankly it's a political sham that there isn't a party that caters to center left and a party for center right.