@canton-dawg said:

IF, the Browns have the number 1 pick in the draft and doesn't feel the need for a QB, just think of the trade offers that will come our way?

Without a clear-cut, slam-dunk QB prospect, the price will not be all that high. And FYI, regardless of how JM finishes, if there was such a prospect, we would take him.

@jiggins7919 said:

What kills me right now is that it won't be terribly easy to grade Johnny Manziel with the team as a whole playing so poorly. I mean, if we're giving up 30 points a game, I don't know many second year qb's that are going to pull out the win.

Another already pointed it out, but W/L is not the basis for evaluating QB.

For all the questioning of our staff, their evaluation and "handling" of JM to this point has been spot on. There is no reason to expect that to change the remainder of 2015.

@mudfly said:

I would only argue that....

1) Its way way too early on Erving and Shelton.....

2) While they arent "immediate impact" players, can you name someone who was taken AFTER them that was an impact player?...

(here's a chance to go cherry pick the one guy who was.....if there is one.......)

Do they play "impact positions"?

As for later picks... point taken... pretty slim pickings. Nonetheless cases could be made for:

Vikes' Kendricks (ILB, R2) and TJ Clemmings (OT, R4) and Stephon Diggs (WR, R5). Vikes had a helluva draft.

A couple other later OL stepped right into starting roles: KC's Morse (OG, R2) and DNV's Sambraillo (LT, R2).

Biggest impact might be Yeldon (R2) on TB's run game... day 1 starter, 14th in rushing and the leading rookie not named Gurley.

@mudfly said:

You are right.....that 2013 has been a very underachieving draft overall. The best picks, believe it or not, may have been two RBs: Levon Bell and Eddie Lacy (now both on the shelf with injuries or underperformance.

the Browns best pick was 7th rounder Armonty Bryant.

The Best QBs....even now: Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, and Mike Glennon.

An ugly draft.

@canton-dawg said:

Whatever you say sweet cheeks.

Kisses.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Not really, your shitty opinion is just easy to mock.

Whatever you say sweet cheeks.

@canton-dawg said:

I'm sorry Mrs Farmer, did I hurt your feelings?

Not really, your shitty opinion is just easy to mock.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Oh no! Your confidence! How will we live?

I'm sorry Mrs Farmer, did I hurt your feelings?

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

If Manziel plays well, why exactly would it be a bad thing that Farmer is GM?

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Just because he didn't draft the guys you wanted?

@canton-dawg said:

Farmer has had 4 first round picks, none of them have been impact players and my confidence in him is shot.

Oh no! Your confidence! How will we live?

@canton-dawg said:

Don't forget the Bills.

How about this scenario....Manziel plays well the rest of the year and the defense still manages to lose every game.

IF, the Browns have the number 1 pick in the draft and doesn't feel the need for a QB, just think of the trade offers that will come our way?

Yet again, if Farmer is still GM....never mind.

If Manziel plays well, why exactly would it be a bad thing that Farmer is GM?

Just because he didn't draft the guys you wanted?

@canton-dawg said:

Yep....I always have......2013 is one of the worst draft classes ever.......and every GM has taken heat for that year, yet there was no one good to pick....(esp if you were picking LB)

Id say Mingo is arguably still the best LB from that class...he's at least in the convo.....

@texasag1969 said:

I will tell you the same thing I told Vagitron when he didn't want to make his bet unless there was an injury clause ... don't be such a pussy.

We have not had a running game all year, yet both quarterbacks have played well, and I expect that to continue.

It's OK ... your little Johnny is going to swim in the big boy pool now, let go of his arm and let him sink or swim.

Zombo

--Johnny can always make his own running game.

Zombo said:

I love you too Z.

But just admit that without a running threat there is one hand tied behind him. But then he has had that since HS so like you, I expect he will show enough that the knowledgeable fans here will see it despite that handicap. Now if we also play him at corner and we fail to win, then ship him out.

@texasag1969 said:

So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.

Because Browns fans sent Quinn, Weeden, McCoy et al into oblivion?

No, they went into oblivion because they sucked.

He needs to impress the coaching staff and the decision makers upstairs, not us.

They understand his experience level.

Fuck you for blaming the Browns fan base, loser.

And fuck you for premade excuses.

Johnny is going to rock and roll.

Go root for Osweiler, Assclown.

Z

@texasag1969 said:

Yeah- I posted in another thread Weeden got way more than11 starts before the Browns pulled the plug on him- and he had Josh Gordon.

@mudfly said:

I would only argue that....

1) Its way way too early on Erving and Shelton.....

2) While they arent "immediate impact" players, can you name someone who was taken AFTER them that was an impact player?...

(here's a chance to go cherry pick the one guy who was.....if there is one.......)

Seriously tho.....are we gonna blame the GM for missing out on something that wasnt actually there to begin with.....?

1) See my comment below about Shelton & Erving.

2) If we're going to give Farmer a flyer on the 2015 draft due to a thin draft class, we would also have to apply that same philosophy to Banner/Lombardi for the Mingo pick.

@canton-dawg said:

I didn't say they were a bust, but they just don't strike me as a standout player.

Could those 2 become standout players...yes.

@texasag1969 said:

Well, he has the rest of this year to show what he's got.

@canton-dawg said:

I would only argue that....

1) Its way way too early on Erving and Shelton.....

2) While they arent "immediate impact" players, can you name someone who was taken AFTER them that was an impact player?...

(here's a chance to go cherry pick the one guy who was.....if there is one.......)

Seriously tho.....are we gonna blame the GM for missing out on something that wasnt actually there to begin with.....?

@jrb12711 said:

So if you watched last night's game then you must have seen how much both Bortles and Mariotta struggled just to hit their wide open larger receivers in comparison to JM's performance. And one has started a year and a half and the other all this year. New QB's struggle. I just hope the Browns fan base can see that before once again sending a QB to QB oblivion. JM is starting to look like the player we want, but he will need time. Get him a running game and one more tall, fast receiver besides Josh Gordon and we may actually see a consistently decent offense.

@londonbrown said:

You can't judge Shelton and Erving already jeez

Could those 2 become standout players...yes.

@canton-dawg said:

I understand

@the-gipper said:

Farmer has had 4 first round picks, none of them have been impact players and my confidence in him is shot.

@canton-dawg said:

Again, not sure Farmer is the problem......though his record isn't good. DC is the major problem on this team.....or HC if the DC is just running the HC's system.....which is a suck ass system.