@jiggins7919 said:

Can anyone explain why our rb's get hit in the backfield so often? I'm not saying we have allstar caliber running backs, but at the same time, I don't know any that can be successful when they're getting drilled 3 yards back every other run. Is this the fault of our OL? Our play design? I don't have the stats on hand, and I'm not going to make any up, but I recently heard the percentage of times our backs got hit in the backfield and it was staggering (don't remember the specific percentage, and not sure how to find it).

Even when we are getting blown out, it seems like almost every run we try and sneak in gets abruptly snuffed out.

If you watched last nite's game, then you might remember a comment by Collinsworth after CJ Andersen broke a stretch ZBS run for a fairly long gain. It was about one blocker handling the Pat's NT and how "once a big man gets moving laterally, he becomes easier to handle." All true...

Whether it's our predictability or lack of respect for our pass-game or something else, our opponents' DL seem to attack our ZBS. Quite often at least one of our interior three succumb to that "attack", get pushed into our backfield and a TFL occurs.

@mudfly said:

Different. Flip seems to have gotten a lot more out of Barnidge than Shanahanahanahanahan managed, for sure. Benjamin's production can be attributed to maturing as a player and recovering from injury, so no comparison there. Last year, at least, we had a semblance of a run game, even after mack's injury. We were disappointed to be 'only' getting 70-80 yards per game on the ground. Now we're frequently looking at 15-20 yard games total.

@bbedward said:

Ha....well Im no shanny fan......and, in fact, was happy to see him go.....

Just saying that I dont think Flip is an improvement...........

@mudfly said:

Our run game was pretty atrocious last year for pretty much every game after Mack went down - which was most of the season. We have Mack back now of course, but I'm not so sure that Mack was the reason our running game turned non-existent last year (at least not the whole reason)

Shanny ham also stuck with something when it wasn't working, so there's that

*edit*

And go ask on an Atlanta board what they think of Shanahan

@calfoxwc said:

That would be on Flip.....the coordinator that keeps getting praise....even though he is predictable and bland as hell......and abandons whatever works every game......and gets uber conservative whenever he even sniffs a lead......and hasnt found a way to run the ball with one of the best lines in the league.....

I thought Shanny was a whiny worm, but at least he was creative and knew enough to stay with something when it was working.......

on first down so consistently...

except they seemed to have broken from that the last game....

Even when we are getting blown out, it seems like almost every run we try and sneak in gets abruptly snuffed out.

anyone who knows football knows it's all about the lines....

(manziel dreams...chirp. chirp.)

I don't know about Zeke and the ZBS. I like him, but so much of the time the zone read gets him the second level so quick and clean it's hard for me to see what he will do in a pro offense.

Then there are other times like Saturday when he popped thru a sliver of a crack in the line that made me go, "Oh Yeah..."

@calfoxwc said:

I wonder how Elliot does with a zbs... does Ohio State do that? (hey, I never played, so....)

I have no idea, but we sure could use his pass blocking ability.. Crow and Duke struggle..

Tour is probably right about the zbs and the rb's we have now. But several games in a row this season, I sat there,

and said "you watch, babe, they'll run on first down again"....

and that happened several series in a row. Most all the game. I didn't see that though, in the pittspuke game.

I don't know why they were doing it.

Bernie Kosar liked to throw the ball way downfield to get into the defenses' minds,

right from the beginning of the game...

I want to keep track of rushes on first down Mon night. Something is causing the olinemen to

miss the snap counts. Frustration, too much of something. Wish I knew...

I wonder how Elliot does with a zbs... does Ohio State do that? (hey, I never played, so....)

Maybe we arent running zone blocking as well as we did?

?

WSS

I think you have to look at penalties as well.

The loading the box argument was used to death last year. Then, as now, we use formations that pull the opponent's D into the box.

I really think our running woes are RB related above all else. Neither Crow nor Duke have shown a knack for the ZBS so far. Our best ZBS RBs were moved on... Tate, West, Turbin... Draughn may have been better than any of them (and he looked OK for SF today).

this year they only have 756 yds. I say, I've seen them continually lose series of downs, because the

run on first down so much, defenses simply key on that, and the offense ends up with only two downs to get a first down,

leaving the qb's and wr's to have to do heroics even to get a first down, which they have done often.

But, in the long run, the lack of elite weapons at wr is killing the offense, as well as the predictable runs on first down

so much of the time.

@westside-steve said:

****************************

Well, good question. I think last year, they were running on them -

Terrance West 171 673 3.9 36 4 4 48.1 1 1 30

Isaiah Crowell 148 607 4.1 35 5 8 37.9 3 2 34

Ben Tate 106 333 3.1 25 1 4 41.6 0 0

The three backs totalled 1,513 yards.

because they had 6'2" Miles Austin, Jordan Cameron, and sometimes, Josh Gordon.

Now, West is gone, Jordan and Austin and Gordon are gone. So, my theory is, they can double cover Barnidge,

leaving single coverage on all the little short receivers, except for Hartline, who they might worry about ...

so they don't worry about the big receivers because they are gone.......and just work to shut down the run, since

the Browns run so often on first down. As in, most of the time, except I noticed in the pittspuke game, they

tended to stop doing it.

@tour2ma said:

O-Line? O-line is boring...

If Ghoolie reads this thread, his head will explode.

@calfoxwc said:

receivers. The passing game isn't a threat but once in a while,

except for Barnidge.

They have doubled on the coverage on Barnidge, and once in a blue moon,

the ball goes long to Travis.

Not enough to be unstoppable. Solid coverage teams can blitz at McCown because

all too often, except for the terrific TE....

he has nobody to throw to. The windows are small with a small wr. No big targets at wr who can jump.

If the Browns offense had an A.J. Green, they'd be trying to double cover Green, and Barnidge would

have an easier time of it. That is just how I see it.;

What's the big difference with the receivers this year? Seems like both Josh and Johnny have completed a fair amount of passes.

WSS

@mudfly said:

I dont know what that means...10 players.....I do know that our Offense got worse this year and scores less than last year....and our running game got a LOT worse.....so why all the love for Flip when everything has gone from bad to worse????

Malcolm Johnson our fullback has played 142 of 691 offensive snaps this year that 20.5% offensive plays. He does not run the ball (tight end at Mississippi State) and has had 4 targets in the passing game and 2 were in the first game so the odds of the ball going to him are 02.8%. Last but definitely not least he can't block for shit. We would be better off if we just used another offensive lineman instead of him at least we might have someone who could block. So you see whenever MJ is on the field we are essentially playing with 10 guys on offense.

Defensively....our pass defense has fallen from #1 to #12....same players. same system........and our pass rush has fallen off the map(same players, same system).....so what did Oneill do to make them worse?...or is it that the DB's have all missed a ton of games and the LB's just arent playing well...?

Cause I dont see Oneill out there missing all those tackles and getting beat on virtually every play......

except for Barnidge.

They have doubled on the coverage on Barnidge, and once in a blue moon,

the ball goes long to Travis.

Not enough to be unstoppable. Solid coverage teams can blitz at McCown because

all too often, except for the terrific TE....

he has nobody to throw to. The windows are small with a small wr. No big targets at wr who can jump.

If the Browns offense had an A.J. Green, they'd be trying to double cover Green, and Barnidge would

have an easier time of it. That is just how I see it.;

WSS

@mudfly said:

Outside of Dansby for a few plays here & there, the LBs have been invisible. Kirksey, who looked good as a rookie has regressed.

I think we need to take a serious look at LBs in the next draft (I've been saying this since 1994). Look at our AFC North rivals, their LBs key their defenses every year.