@lbc-mike said:

Correct. Browns would've had #33, but New England had to forfeit their 1st rounder so the Browns slide up a spot.

@tour2ma said:

I was more thinking of someone you've not yet seen/looked hard at as yet. Assumed you had a life...

Not really feeling the Brockweiller... plus as bb pointed out no better place for the wheel to stop than on the right QB.

Oh. That's a possibility. I haven't watched much defensive game tape outside of the usual suspects.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

That's what I'm afraid of, actually. Someone "popping" between now and the draft shows us what?

That's where my dilemma is.

I was more thinking of someone you've not yet seen/looked hard at as yet. Assumed you had a life...

@texasag1969 said:

I just want to see the Browns usual carousel of fire staff, get a QB, fail, rinse, repeat, to just fucking stop. Draft a difference maker on D. I think Bosa looks to be that guy. Look for a QB later or pay the money to steal Denver's QB in waiting.

Not really feeling the Brockweiller... plus as bb pointed out no better place for the wheel to stop than on the right QB.

@texasag1969 said:

I don't think we have the money to steal Denver's QB in waiting.

@texasag1969 said:

I just want to see the Browns usual carousel of fire staff, get a QB, fail, rinse, repeat, to just fucking stop. Draft a difference maker on D. I think Bosa looks to be that guy. Look for a QB later or pay the money to steal Denver's QB in waiting.

We all want it to stop, which is I'm leaning towards drafting the best QB prospect to come out since 2012.

Weeden and Manziel were always a long shot to be the answer

@tour2ma said:

Someone will pop... I don't have a name yet. But once you add any reasonable candidate it starts balancing the scale.

My "advantage" (if you want to call it that) is that I am not head over heels for Bosa. Also my advantage... I've not yet looked hard at Wentz. Still looking for something/anything wrong with Goff...

That's what I'm afraid of, actually. Someone "popping" between now and the draft shows us what? That he's a great offseason worker, but that's likely it. For non QB's, I really don't care too much what they do between now and the draft. For QB's, I really only care about the Wonderlic and how they look throwing the ball at the combine.

I'm not head over heels for Bosa, either. I'm not an Ohio State homer, for the most part I don't really watch too much college football until after the fact for evaluation. But I think he is handly the best DE, and possibly the best prospect in general ... and that's a position of need for us.

The "problems" I have with Goff aren't necessarily problems. They are all just tiny points of contention that just keep him from being a can't miss guy.

One, I don't think he played well against the best talent he faced - a relatively minor issue. Two, he added 25 lbs. of bulk over the last season or two and he's still slight, he might not have much more to add - also a minor issue. Three, his deep accuracy leaves something to be desired...he has just as many bad deep throws as he does great ones.

And that's about it. In a bubble, that's not NEARLY enough to dissuade me from liking him. But the fact that Wentz exists, and will probably be there at #32, gives me enough to wonder about the pick. Wentz possesses nearly all of the same physical and mental gifts as Goff. IMO, the trade off is that he's less accurate on his mid-level throws and he's played against far inferior talent, but he's in a bigger frame and he would allow us to get an impact player at he top of the draft.

That's where my dilemma is.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

JJ Watt may be the wrong example. Jared Allen though is in that same mold. A guy who can change the game. A guy who the other team has to game plan for. A guy on defense that will make the opposing QB come to the line and go....."ok..where is whoever?" (Watt, Allen, Lewis, etc). If Bosa can be that guy? He's the guy I want.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

UPDATE:

After 8 full games of Goff, the scales are shifting. He might be worth the pick at #2.

With McCown on the team for the next 2 years, the timing couldn't be better to have a veteran QB to mentor whoever we draft.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

The problem is...who?

Someone will pop... I don't have a name yet. But once you add any reasonable candidate it starts balancing the scale.

My "advantage" (if you want to call it that) is that I am not head over heels for Bosa. Also my advantage... I've not yet looked hard at Wentz. Still looking for something/anything wrong with Goff...

I know we suck everywhere, I'm just leaning towards the idea that Goff is the guy with pretty high franchise QB potential.

At #32 I'm not sure. Taking the analytical approach probably contradicts any expensive trade up unless we really, really like another guy who won't fall that far

@tour2ma said:

The problem is...who? Ragland won't be there.

Allen, Bullard, Lawson, Nassib are mocked to be in that general area, but I think that the talent differential between Bosa and any of these guys is much larger than that between Goff and Wentz.

As for LB's - Ragland won't be there. Beckwith will likely be available at the top of the third as of today.

The best I could come up with would be Calhoun. And the Goff + Calhoun combo, while interesting enough, doesn't strike me as much as the Bosa + Wentz combo. Especially if we keep McCown.

The biggest factor for me is what we plan on doing with McCown. I could get by for another year or possibly two with McCown at the helm if it means we make solid decisions in the draft to acquire top talent in problem areas. Then it would be a better situation to add a young QB.

I see us winning no more than 7 games a season regardless of who we have at QB for the next few years. That's why I'm hesitant on Goff if Bosa is on the board.

@mark-o said:

No, I don't believe he is another JJ Watt. That is a generational talent. I'd put him more as a Jared Allen in his prime.

Or like one of my all-time favorites...Pat Kerney.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

But I'm still salivating over the Bosa + Wentz combination as well. This is tough for me.

lol... May I suggest you look for a late-first, front-seven player with impact potential to balance the scales?

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I think the question really is.....can Bosa be on the same level as someone like JJ Watt? Picking a defensive player at #2 overall, he needs to be a gamechanger. If that opinion is that Bosa can be that guy....then thats who we have to take in my opinion.. I don't know enough about college football or watch enough of it to have a strong opinion but I'm leaning more towards liking the Bosa and then a QB in 2nd or 3rd. Twatwater went 32nd and I think we'd all agree we'd rather have him that Johnny shitshow right now.

@bbedward said:

It was never a doubt of his talent in my opinion, it was a cost-benefit analysis of our draft as a whole. I didn't (and still don't yet) see Goff + whoever benefitting us more than Bosa + Wentz, especially with the chance of landing Rosen in two years. I didn't see Goff as a can't miss QB, and that's what you really have to look for when picking at #2.

I still don't see Goff as a can't miss, but he's certainly better than I gave him credit for. Depending on coaching hires and free agent acquisitions, I could see the value in taking Goff at #2 - he has natural arm talent, size, intangibles, football intelligence, and proven performance against top talent for the most part.

But I'm still salivating over the Bosa + Wentz combination as well. This is tough for me.

After 8 full games of Goff, the scales are shifting. He might be worth the pick at #2.

@bbedward said:

Those are the things I like about Goff, and they are also the same things I like about Wentz. Tiamat was onto something with Wentz, every single game I've watched, I've liked him more.

Wentz just did it against lesser talent, but he was consistently strong in those aspects in every game - just like Goff. In my opinion, if we were to take a guy based on those assets, take the guy in the second and see about developing him.

But, like I said, that's just me. Things will likely change between now and the draft, and I wouldn't be opposed to taking Goff if they deem him to be the guy.

@bbedward said:

I watched both the Cal game and the Memphis game, both really being the first time I've seen either guy in action. I know some of you scoff at the thought, but the eye test beyond the scores/stats really, really favored Goff IMO. Goff just looked very natural out there, dare I say cerebral even. One thing I look at for QB's is when it's clear the game is slowed down for them, which is clearly was for Goff. Yeah Yeah, it was against Air Force but my point still stands. Bottom line is everything he did looked natural and just solid, fundamental skills at the position.

Lynch on the other hand didn't do it for me much at all. You can tell the athletic ability is there, and obviously flashes of good football. But, at a base level just looked how I was watching Goff everything he was doing seemed awkward and labored. The natural fluidity you like to see in QB's is something I didn't see in him at all. I saw a guy with potential and athletic ability, but that describes a lot of guys with NFL hopes. Also, it's a pretty interesting and somewhat backed up with fact opinion that super tall QB's fail by in large in the NFL. Outside of Joe Flacco there really hasn't been a dude 6'6'' or taller to dominate the NFL. I've heard analysis that even those two-three inches allows defenders to better read a QB's eyes before the snap, but who knows.

The guy has broken the all-time pac-12 TD record and such.

But what I'm more interested in - is his footwork, pocket prescence, accuracy literally everywhere short-mid-deep range, transitioning through reads, never panics in the face of pressure - adjusts release to throw over the blitz. The guy has a lot of qualities in his game that make him an excellent NFL prospect.

@bbedward said:

Is Goff the top QB talent in this draft? More than likely. But that doesn't mean he's a top-10 talent, per se. I agree he will go in the top 10, probably top 5. Hell, we might grab him. But there's still parts of his game that I think don't translate well - namely that he's had his most trouble in "bigger" games against ranked teams, unbeatens or conference rivals. His only multi-interception games over the past two seasons have come at the hands of Southern Cal (2), Stanford (2) and Utah (5).

I'm not saying that Goff is a bad prospect, or that those games in a nutshell are red flags. I like him enough, and he's probably the best prospect and will experience some NFL success. I'm saying that I think his top end potential is a franchise-level QB akin to Andy Dalton - good, but not great. And that's fine. If we pick him, I'll be happy. I think anybody with half a brain would take Andy Dalton over any QB we've had since Bernie. But I think personally believe that we could get Wentz in the second and not have a noticeable difference in offensive performance - and that leaves us the option on swinging for the fences for a guy like Josh Rosen in a couple of years.

It's like going to a car auction and buying the best car there just because it's the best one there. One week, the best car could be a '94 Accord, the next week it could be a 2013 Camry, the next week it could be a 2015 Corvette. You only have the cash to pick one the top one once, so do you blow your load on the Camry when there's the possibility of a Corvette the next week?

@bbedward said:

I think I will wait until the draft talk gets a bit more serious......Like after the Super Bowl at least.

I mean, when is the draft? In May? They could play an entire UFL football season in that time.