@baconhound said:

Farmer already in the building when Pettine was hired. I hope you remember the Holmgren & Mangini

Remember, it was Jimmah who hired Pet...not Farmer.

That's why I'm of the mindset that if Farmer gets canned, it doesn't necessarily mean Pettine gets his walking papers.

@canton-dawg said:

Farmer already in the building when Pettine was hired. I hope you remember the Holmgren & Mangini

@baconhound said:

It is standard protocol for a new GM to bring in their coach. Only way Farmer goes and Pettine stays is if Haslam becomes Cleveland's Jerry Jones.

Also, Pet doesn't answer to the GM he answers to Jimmah.

@canton-dawg said:

It is standard protocol for a new GM to bring in their coach. Only way Farmer goes and Pettine stays is if Haslam becomes Cleveland's Jerry Jones.

@baconhound said:

If Farmer is gone so is Pettine & Co

Maybe...maybe not.

@gftchris said:

Yep, flip is a west coast guy if memory serves.

For what it's worth PFR lists us as running a WCO... looks right to me.

@richiswhere said:

I think I made it pretty clear I don't hold Pettine blameless for the current mess- but the best coaches adjust their scheme to maximize the talent of the players they have. Seriously- if it was all about scheme, you'd about have to completely churn the roster to get "your" guys to fit "your" system.

@richiswhere said:

Maybe Pettine expressed his belief to Farmer that's none of these guys were good enough to play in his system.

Farmer consulted with Pettine and drafted the guys that Pettine asked for?

The guys that could actually play ball, and were subsequently cut were let go because Pettine told Farmer they sucked?

If I'm the owner, and this is how things are playing out in the personnel dept in Berea I would have to ask 1 question.

What are we paying Farmer to do? Obviously Pettne is doing everything.

But I seriously doubt that's what's happening on Lou Groza Blvd...Farmer sucks.

@canton-dawg said:

All of the players that were let go and playing well elsewhere were NOT Farmer's picks.

TJ Ward, Jabal Sheard, Buster Skrine, Ahtyba Rubin were all brought in by another regime.

If Farmer was so fucking good....why were they let go?

VesnaKociper said:

Don't be an ignoramus.

FWIW I wasn't cussing out Skrine- and wasn't cussing out EVERY ONE OF THE FOLLOWING either. In fact, I was pissed they were allowed to walk. We had the most cap room in the NFL, but Farmer thought they were "too expensive" to keep around. They were playing better than virtually every one currently on our roster- so don't give me that crap. Ray the Farmer downgraded with each of those moves, and it shows.

@canton-dawg said:

All of the players that were let go and playing well elsewhere were NOT Farmer's picks.

TJ Ward, Jabal Sheard, Buster Skrine, Ahtyba Rubin were all brought in by another regime.

If Farmer was so fucking good....why were they let go?

THAT'S apparently the problem Tom. Farmer wouldn't know talent if it walked up to him and bit him in the ass. Every one of those guys is contributing to a playoff level team. Rubin is starting for the f**king Seahawks (one of the best in the league) defenses, but dumb ass Farmer thought he wasn't good enough to play for the Browns. Yeah, I suppose it's Pettine's fault Farmer brought in Dwayne Bowe, who has lost so many steps, I'd put money the long since retired Hanford Dixon could cover him. I suppose Pettine is such a bad coach & so stupid, the #8 pick in the draft (Gilbert) is so lousy (and Farmer never bothered to work him out BTW) a special teams player BAD-emosi beat him out for playing time. Farmer was so enamored of Vince Mayle in the fourth round- (OH YEAH, every draftnick and talking head said at the time it was a bad pick, and huge reach) he got immediately cut, and is currently out of football.

I'd suggest you go back to doing something you're good at- like playing the accordion. Leave the talent evaluation to those of us who actually keep an eye on such things.

@the-gipper said:

Well, the best in that system were Joe Montana and Steve Young....and they weren't huge each 6'2".

The WCO that Shurmur tried here with McCoy certainly didn't work. Was that because the system was outdated? Because the coaching was piss poor (almost certainly a factor). Because McCoy was not good enough?

Could JFF excel in it? Is he smart enough? I do believe it takes a very intelligent QB to master it.

Who could the Browns even bring in to coach it?

Here is a partial answer to my question that I found on Wiki:

2014 present

Baltimore Ravens John Harbaugh Gary Kubiak and Marc Trestman

2014 present Cleveland Browns Mike Pettine Kyle Shanahan and John DeFilippo

2014 present New York Giants Tom Coughlin Ben McAdoo

2014 Oakland Raiders Tony Sparano Greg Olson

2014 present Washington Redskins Jay Gruden Sean McVay

2015 present Atlanta Falcons Dan Quinn Kyle Shanahan

2015 present Buffalo Bills Rex Ryan Greg Roman

2015 present Denver Broncos Gary Kubiak Rick Dennison

2015 present Oakland Raiders Jack Del Rio Bill Musgrave

2015 present San Francisco 49ers Jim Tomsula Geep Chryst

This says the Browns are using it now under Flip.

Mike freaking Sherman. Hire the man. He satisfies the need from some of our dorkier fans that we have an uber high character football team.

TJ Ward, Jabal Sheard, Buster Skrine, Ahtyba Rubin were all brought in by another regime.

If Farmer was so fucking good....why were they let go?

@canton-mike said:

Agree too, the issues are the homework we have been doing on players off the field.

But Farmer came in very late to that 2013 draft, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

VesnaKociper said:

I agree with most of the above, simply because of what I call "the common denominator theory"......

Farmer did NOT draft or sign all the players who have played poorly this year, but Pettine & his coaching staff HAVE coached EVERY SINGLE ONE of them!

Bottom line is there are issues throughout the Browns' organization & time will tell what happens.

Mike

I know you're really busy with your appointment under farmer's desk right now but if you could keep the useless noise down that would great. The grown ups are talking

@cainedesoulis said:

Agreed....think it was pretty much the consensus that he was out of position at OLB and would probably flourish once he was back at DE with NE.....(though I knew the whining would start, if he did well)

Never liked that conversion when Horton did it.....

Here's the old discussion from when he left.....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=32284&hl=sheard

@cainedesoulis said:

he's playing better now than he did with this shitass team...regardless of what scheme they use or we use....we just cannot figure out anything except how to fucking lose...

VesnaKociper said:

I am not a farmer fan...however a good case in point that you make is how sheard is playing...he's playing like a man possessed and alot of the espn analysts are saying he is the main reason the defense has stepped it up...when sheard was here, he was invisible for the most part...good point...