@tour2ma said:

once mack went down last yr the running game turned to shit...they had to move a guard in his spot because we had shit as far as depth. then had to replace the moving guard with another guard. our depth chart on the ol is total shit. losing mack will be a hugh loss even though i thought he stunk up the joint this yr...how the fuck did he make the pro bowl...i tivo'd so many of his plays and he was on his ass more so than making a good block...

@justajagsfan said:

this is what i heard from joe banner on mike and mike this am...i know we are not big banner fans but at least during his segment he admitted on his mistakes. Hey shit happens. Any way, he said this sushi guy knows jack shit about football...he is an analyst guy..he breaks down data..and that is it. He tells the gm that , hey, this guy is getting old and needs to be replaced, not factoring in anything about football at all. So the gm has to go out and evaluate talent based on his stats...Sounds like the movie moneyball to me. banner said back in the day all nfl teams were 100 percent football evaluated and now the browns want to go 60/40. the 60 is the analytical portion.. banner said there are not going to be many coaches that will want to be involved in that. He said this is very dangerous territory. That's what i got out of it..

@tour2ma said:

Perhaps. A bit of speculation on my part, given they made a strong bid for him a year or so ago, he is now free to leave, Jacksonville still has a hole at C, today, Caldwell said a player being 30-31 won't preclude the Jaguars from pursuing him if they think he can help.

Thanks guys for the perspectives.

JJF,

I only formally graded through Week 7 this year and Mack was consistently at or near the bottom of our 5 OL. My sense is that he improved in the 2nd half of the season.

Chief among Mack's individual issues that I saw were an inability to prevent penetration when on the move in our ZBS. In 2014 you could use our OL as a ruler when they moved as a group... not so much in 2015. Someone always seemed to get blown backwards a couple yards and too often it was Mack, but it happened to all three of our interior OL.

Pre-injury 2014 Alex delivered strong chips on his way to the second level making both Bitonio's and Greco's lives much easier... and then he'd nail an LB. In 2015 his chips lived down to their name before continuing on... often missing a 2nd level assignment. He seemed "hurried" in 2015... like the game had sped up.

His PassPro play dropped off some in 2015, but not nearly as much as his run blocking. He might have gotten walked back an extra step by a strong bull rush, but was seldom cleanly beaten.

If you Keyword search "grades" in Titles only, you'll find a list of the Weeklies.

Is JAX looking to make a run at him in FA?

@gumby73 said:

Not much, I'm afraid.

To my knowledge, he didn't play any role in building the roster or running a draft with the team. The bulk of his time was spent under Gene Smith (a disastrous time for us), and he first started under Shack Harris (not so bad). He hasn't been here under the current regime.

More of a cap person than a personnel guy.

@justajagsfan said:

Probably a combination of injury and scheme. We struggled to run until the last four or five weeks of the season, which meant opponents could throw a lot at our OL when we were in 3rd & long.

@gftchris said:

Thanks for the input.

So were his anchoring in pass protection and drive blocking impacted most by the injury, do you think?

A big factor of course is that he broke his leg last year, and that seemed to affect him. His play did improve over the course of the season but it's entirely possible his mind was on vacation. I'm sure there's a lot of vitriol directed towards him under the assumption that he's leaving, but were he to not opt-out he'd be welcomed back with open arms...which would promptly miss him on his way to the end zone.

One of the subjects on this board that has been of particular interest to me is Alex Mack, since he signed an offer sheet with my Jaguars a while back, and it sounds as if he may be leaving you guys.

From reading this board, the general impression I get is that by his standards, this was a down year for him. If so, to what do you attribute this? Do you think it was lingering effects from his broken leg? How did the bad play manifest itself? I've seen some indicate he'd lose at the point of attack and get stuffed into the backfield. Did he lose mobility/pulling ability? Do you think somehow he lost motivation? I read one blurb/article (can't remember where) that indicated his play improved over the course of the year. Is this true?

One more question-as crazy as it sounds. How are his shotgun snaps? Have you guys had any problems with them from him? The past couple of years have been nightmarish for us in that area.

@westside-steve said:

No idea but I would have to guess given a choice between a good player and a shity player, one might assume the good one would make for a better line.

I think I see a ScoutMaster candidate...

@bbedward said:

Losing Mack is fine.

JT you have to leave it up to him and respect his decision. If he decides he wants out then who could blame him, and we'll still get a decent value in return for him.

Agree totally on Mack, but we can't lose him and Mitch and Joe... not all in the same year. Joe needs to stay... at least for now.

Some very great players have been stuck with very bad franchises their entire careers... many in an era where player mobility was nowhere close to where it is today. Joe made his choice when he signed his extension.

He stays for now...

Can Denver do it now for the playoffs, like in baseball?

WSS

JT you have to leave it up to him and respect his decision. If he decides he wants out then who could blame him, and we'll still get a decent value in return for him.

@the-gipper said:

The team may have been a bit better if Mack had played better.

All these guys saying "I want out of here"......half the time THEY were the problem here.

That's a fact. Mac never wanted to be here even before. So fuck him. I think everyone is exaggerating Joe Thomas response. He is extremely disappointed and said he wasn't sure what he wanted with changes coming. Who would? And until they clarify the responsibilities of this bean counting affirmative action hack lawyer it would seem that everyone involved would be on the fence.

I'm usually among the biggest rah rah keep the positive attitude let's go browns guy you will ever find. I specifically waited to hear the Jimmy Haslam statement.

Until there is some further explaination, the guy sounds like a half wit.

WSS

WSS

All these guys saying "I want out of here"......half the time THEY were the problem here.

@miktoxic said:

Thomas and Mack are both on the downside of their careers, and it showed this season. All of these players who want out should be shown the door. The success or failure of this team isn't going to be determined by a couple of washed up linemen. The Oline sucked all season. If that's what a couple of overpaid, under acheiving offensive line players gets you, then please...don't let the door hit you in the ass.

WSS

Zombo said:

couldn't tell you. only other center i know off the top of my head is mangold, obvious reasons.

funny though i got a steeler's fan who knows more about the brown's personnel than half the fans on here and named off all the pro bowlers on the team and said 'that's a good core of players to build around' and then i laughed because i know those core players all want the fuck out of cleveland............and i don't blame them.

@why said:

Correct. We should be happy to let Joe go also...He ain't seein not only a superbowl with this shitass team, he aint seein the playoffs or maybe even a winning record before he is old and grey...The guy deserves a fucking chance. We should be emailing fucking haslem asking him to have mercy on poor joe and hook him up with a contender before it's too late...

@miktoxic said:

you mean johnny and davis?

i don't think you could say that about our starting QB. he just got his head bashed in when he left the pocket.

Ah... but he often left the pocket for good reason... unlike JM...