@the-gipper said:

Trade even up: Johnny for Foles.

Done! I have a feeling we've not heard the last from Mr. Foles.

Rams will land someone for "the move"... and probably add a vet. RG3 would not surprise me with Wentz as the QB of the future.

@opal312 said:

They want excitement? A name that would go over big in Hollywood?

Trade even up: Johnny for Foles.

At least they would get the attention they want....and Johnny can butt sniff the celebrities that would come to hang around.

Win Win Win

@mike-h said:

Is that the 5 INT game? Haven't gotten to that one yet.

That's it. Bad game but there's some good in there too. I recall two of the picks were pretty much 100% his fault, maybe 3. Other ones came from a drop and a tip.

@hoorta said:

Is that the 5 INT game? Haven't gotten to that one yet.

@mike-h said:

OK, regarding Goff- don't know if it has to be Brett Farve bazooka, but it does have to be accurate. I refer you to around 1:55 of the video. He'll never be compared to Manziel in scrambling ability either. It's thirteen minutes of film, when he didn't have a particularly good game.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jared-goff-vs-utah-2015/

@mike-h said:

As for Wentz, you're probably right -- I was just giving you shit

lol... not as if the giving is anything new...

The new spirit with which it is given, however, will take some getting used to...

@tour2ma said:

I think Goff's deep numbers look the way they do because "deep" passing is considered 20+, and the times his arm really underwhelms is the 35-plus-yarders.

As for Wentz, you're probably right -- I was just giving you shit

@mike-h said:

https://twitter.com/TDGawd/status/685571443006947328

Also, I am watching Goff a lot. His arm on the 20+ stuff, especially to the sidelines, is not impressive. At all.

First on Goff... Yes, his deep ball is not great... and certainly does not "wow". Actually surprised me that his completion percentages are as high as they charted to be. Also surprised me that his deep percentages were higher than Lynch's.

On the tweeted gif... I remember that play, but it's only one, anecdotal success... and one, I'd add, that was thrown about as flat as that deep of a ball can be thrown. But point taken... I should have said "doesn't have the ability to consistently drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath."

Not only that but the quarterback position is so often a boom or bust pic.

If you come out against every quarterback taken in the first round odds are you will be right on some level and then you can brag about it forever.

WSS

@harley45 said:

Amen.

Z

@tour2ma said:

https://twitter.com/TDGawd/status/685571443006947328

Also, I am watching Goff a lot. His arm on the 20+ stuff, especially to the sidelines, is not impressive. At all.

@tour2ma said:

Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar.

Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch.

First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good.

Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off.

Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure.

Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage.

Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best...

If you're talking about the pick in the NIU game, I think that was just a bad throw. He short armed it a bit and under threw the bust route... if he had put a little more on it, it would have been six.

But that also could point back to touch.

@jiggins7919 said:

I think it's interesting that Todd McShay has Lynch rated higher than Goff.

Don't agree with it, but I can understand it if you don't give added weight to the mental aspects of the game. To me that's the biggest hurdle there is and so far Goff is the only one I see who has already cleared that bar.

@bbedward said:

Fractured his throwing wrist, had surgery in October. Missed the rest of the season until a couple weeks ago played the FCS championship game against Jacksonville State.

Played like trash against Jacksonville State. 1 TD, 2 interceptions, 55% completion. Though he did have a couple of rushing touchdowns... (One interception was an incredible play by the DB, but shows his deep accuracy needs some consistency)

Personally I don't understand the hype from what I've seen so far, but we'll see. I see him staring down guys, I don't really see him throwing guys open (or throwing with anticipation)

Just spent my first session with Wentz watched his early stuff vs. Montana and NIU. After getting over my usual running-QB-gag-reflex I saw some good, but more areas in need of development than either Goff or Lynch.

First need... touch... doesn't have the ability to drop balls into windows with a man yards underneath... ends up throwing too flat. Otherwise the arm talent is there. Looked to me like the throwing mechanics are there. TOR in both directions is good.

Second need... vision... threw a bad pick to a single-high FS he never saw closing... never looked for... never looked off.

Feet are good and pocket presence is not terrible, but he does drop his eyes to the rush and first instinct tends to be to bolt rather than slide in pocket. This showed vs. NIU as Montana never really generated pressure.

Reads-wise... looks for open receivers rather than reads defenses... and still throws into double coverage.

Still more to watch, but so far he looks very much like a multi-year project... at best...

@jiggins7919 said:

this is actually a concern about prospects like Goff as well. Because EVERY qbs arm talent and speed is degraded(relatively) a lot when making the transition from college to the nfl. So when you have a guy who just has 'above average' arm talent in college, take that down 2-3 pegs and what do you have.....then you have people who say the mannings, bradys, and brees' of the world had only good(and not special) arm talent in college. This is not true in the least(or for how it translates to nfl)....

1) Brees' arm strength, for whatever reason, has been said to increase greatly after he got to the nfl. Why? Hell if I know. But whatever happened he found a way to put more pace on the ball than when he was at purdue. Everyone has said this. I dont think we can count on this.

2) There was never anything average about brady's arm talent. Especially his deep ball early on in his pro career. Yes he was a 6th round pick, but his arm talent was absurd. Look at him in his first year starting in the nfl and some of these throws....early in his career he threw the most rope-like deep ball I've ever seen.

3) coming out of tennessee peyton had exceptional arm talent. Was it quite on the level of Leaf? No...but it was still in the top 5% of college qbs coming out. Very very few college qbs could put more pace on 25 yard throws with only a quick hitch than peyton.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

No, everything I said is factual.

Fact: Bill Polian said these guys are second rounders at best in him estimation.

Fact: These guys were not given high ratings when the college season began.

Fact: Sure, many people have re-evaluated them and ranked them much higher now.

Fact: nobody....including not one of you out there....including me, has a clue if a Paxton Lynch is the next Peyton Manning or the next Dan McGwire.

Fact: not on of you out there knows if Jared Goff is the next Aaron Rodgers or the next Joey Harrington.

Fact: my skepticism about these guys and how they are suddenly being uberhyped as being worth of our #2 overall pick gives me pause....as it should all of you. (OK, this may be more in the form of an opinion....but you get my drift.)

If picking QBs were a science, then all of the scouts our there would be on a par with Einstein and Hawking.....but it is not a science.

It is an art......and you don't know from one time to another if you are getting the Mona Lisa or Elvis on Velvet.

(besides....your "actual talk" is quite frankly....boring, so you need me to spice things up a bit.)

@the-gipper said:

You don't know what is proof and what isn't. Testimonial evidence IS proof. Take it from a Magistrate.

And I gave testimony as to what these people said. And considering the credibility of the witness....you can take it to the bank.

Okay, so you're wrong. Got it.

Moving on to actual talk again.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

You don't know what is proof and what isn't. Testimonial evidence IS proof. Take it from a Magistrate.

And I gave testimony as to what these people said. And considering the credibility of the witness....you can take it to the bank.

@the-gipper said:

The thing is, you still haven't provided proof of these supposed things people have said - so that makes them untrue until otherwise proven.

I heard Bill Belichick say that Carson Wentz and Jared Goff will be better than Tom Brady and John Elway.

@hoorta said:

Tour I think someone said it before- but looking at that chart- Lynch is captain dump off short. Lots of screens & swing passes?

Lots of screens... both traditional and bubble. All part of the horizontal offense. But he throws them well... generally taking something off of his short throws making them very catchable.

The screens are followed by lots of quick slants. Enough that I started wondering when a team would take away the slants with a backside LB and sure enough, in the next game, a UH LB picked him doing just that.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I am not wrong about what people have said about these guys. What has happened is that due to the position, these guys are all being reevaluated upward. But just because they have been reevaluated does not mean that their talent has increased over what people thought they were early on in this process.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

I've seen more Goff than Wentz, but I didn't really say much about him I think is wrong.

I like his size, frame, arm strength, composure, accuracy in general is good - sometimes inconsistent. The 2 picks against Jacksonville state were caused by being slightly behind and one was more of a great play by the DB. He had a deep ball that was thrown behind and inside - his receivers had to turn, stop, adjust a lot of the time rather than catching in stride. Though this was the first game in 2 months post-injury, I've seen pretty much the entire jacksonville state game and only portions of the other games.

I've seen a poor feel for timing routes. He's pretty good under pressure which seems to be pretty often, though - he knows when to tuck it down and run and does it pretty well.

He's thrown it to a lot of super tight windows, but other times he's behind, underthrown, overthrown.

I guess trash against jacksonville state isn't very fair to say. He played fine, but it wasn't an incredibly impressive day through the air for him though. Certainly not the best of his (short) season.

The upside is there, he has a big frame and the physical attributes you want. He has the arm, accuracy in general, release, seems to have good vision although he still locks onto guys, lapses on footwork sometimes, etc.

I'll be interested in seeing him in the senior bowl, but at this point I don't see him worth a top 5 pick. He may land at 15-22...Probably 2nd round if he does poor at the pre-draft events.

As far as Bortles, I guess he's pretty similar to Bortles. I liked Bortles but I didn't like him at #4 overall at the time, of course he ended up #3 overall.