@westside-steve said:

No simply a cost benefit analysis. What do we gain for what we have to spend. With the exceptions of few programs, food stamps being one, the cost for the registration is passed to the consumer. I don't think that any party will support a "pay to play" voting system. And before we go back down the rabbit hole of "fuck it, we don't need any laws then". It is not about the theory of illegals voting being ok, just simply there are so many more serious arenas where we turn a blind eye that I don't see this as a priority at this time.

I actually don't know, but what do people use now for identification to get food stamps or registrations or bullets or welfare or subsidized housing or bus rides or just about anything else?

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Of course it is.

Let's say the easiest way is to add an endorsement to the States' driver license or non-driver ID cards. The cost of producing documents will be in the hundreds of millions. You'd have to shorten driver license renewal periods and require those people to go into local DMV offices more often to update their photo. That increases the amount of workers needed at the local level and would increase state/local tax burden

http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/State-picks-high-bid-for-driver-s-licenses-4035353.php

Then there is hiring/training competent poll workers since an ID card isn't effective if there is no verification. You would have to staff local Board of Election offices with the equipment to spot a forged document whereas now you have volunteers from the community that earn a daily wage. You'd have toAbsentee ballots would have to be notarized, which incurs an individual cost. You'd also have to create a mechanism for quickly resolving disputes, so if I hand the inspector a driver license that shows me with hair and glass, however, I'm now bald with contacts.

It would cost more than you think

@baconhound said:

If everything was corrected in our political system I'd support voter ID. It is a costly endeavor but if would create less griping, I'm for it.

Come on pal, we both know that it would not.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

If everything was corrected in our political system I'd support voter ID. It is a costly endeavor but if would create less griping, I'm for it.

@baconhound said:

Not worked up at all but I don't think you are grasping my position. Based on voter turnout I'd say voting isn't sacred. Looking at the few swing states I'd argue in the majority of states a persons vote doesn't matter depending on your party affiliation.

Photo identification is not a federal voting law, sorry. If we've solved the larger issues our democratic process faces, I'd support a free voter ID requirement.

I think we typically have fruitful discussion but lately it seemed like you've been Calified

But please if everything else about the political system was fixed you would then Support voter ID?

Why would that be if its a bad thing now?

And remember what I said it's a straw man now for both sides, follow the money, or the votes or whatever.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Not worked up at all but I don't think you are grasping my position. Based on voter turnout I'd say voting isn't sacred. Looking at the few swing states I'd argue in the majority of states a persons vote doesn't matter depending on your party affiliation.

Photo identification is not a federal voting law, sorry. If we've solved the larger issues our democratic process faces, I'd support a free voter ID requirement.

I think we typically have fruitful discussion but lately it seemed like you've been Calified

@baconhound said:

You likened the stance of saying voter fraud isn't a big issue to letting child molesters run free. Not sure if you are just trying to counter everything I say but you may want to read the thread again.

Why require identification for any of the dozens of things it's required for now? If in fact voting is so special and sacred and important.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

You likened the stance of saying voter fraud isn't a big issue to letting child molesters run free. Not sure if you are just trying to counter everything I say but you may want to read the thread again.

@baconhound said:

Obviously you feel this is an important issue, I don't rank it very high. I also don't think it will be effectively enforced or solve an enormous problem.

Obviously I don't. I don't think there's much of a problem I don't think this will be much of a solution. I think it's a strawman for politicians on both sides but especially your side, Democrats, who are hyperventilating over it.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Obviously you feel this is an important issue, I don't rank it very high. I also don't think it will be effectively enforced or solve an enormous problem.

@baconhound said:

You aren't talking about eliminating something that already exists you are talking about adding a requirement.

So?

WSS

@westside-steve said:

You aren't talking about eliminating something that already exists you are talking about adding a requirement.

@baconhound said:

Steve going full on Cal, nice. Good analogy between voter fraud and child molestation. The question is to what lengths should the federal government go to try to eliminate voter fraud. IMO, none. Of the issues that need to be solved concerning the election of candidates it doesn't rank in my top 5, campaign finance, term limits, participation, electoral college vs popular vote & gerrymandering because I'll save you from asking. Illegals electing Democrats is another tin foil hat theory.

Oh please. Okay if you're so offended by the comparison you pick any of the hundreds of things that require identification, and tell me why we should eliminate them. Because, you know, people are going to cheat anyway.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Steve going full on Cal, nice. Good analogy between voter fraud and child molestation. The question is to what lengths should the federal government go to try to eliminate voter fraud. IMO, none. Of the issues that need to be solved concerning the election of candidates it doesn't rank in my top 5, campaign finance, term limits, participation, electoral college vs popular vote & gerrymandering because I'll save you from asking. Illegals electing Democrats is another tin foil hat theory.

@baconhound said:

The best part of voter ID is somehow the 90 year old woman at the polls will be able to spot a fake. If people want to commit fraud they'll find a way to do it. Based on national voting statistics there is more of a problem with people not participating than there is with the people that do.

Not a very good argument sir. Tax cheats child molesters crack pushers and rapists will find a way to do it. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be against the law does it?

WSS

high to make money off it, for other reasons, or to price the registration/licenses fees

so high as to make them unpayable... is the slippery slope that liberals in gov will happily

slide down as far as our 2nd Amendment goes, and maybe SUV's and pickup trucks....

and racists could use that slippery slope to exclude the poor from voting, etc.

It's using economics as a weapon.

@bbedward said:

Nobody charges a fee to register a gun?

Concealed carry requires a decent fee though

@bbedward said:

Thank lawd for Ohio. I've seen some of these states restrict magazine capacity and such - which would also suck. Does 10 rounds versus 15 really make a difference? You can kill a giant with 10 rounds.

Oh you can kill with a Derringer.

Whittling away at firepower is just a slippery slope.

It isn't that hard to understand is it?

WSS

@westside-steve said:

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/2013/03/how-much-does-it-cost-own-firearm-state-state-breakdown

There's an article about fees to own guns.

Speaking of constitutional, which it isn't, there is a fee for a wedding license.

WSS

Thank lawd for Ohio. I've seen some of these states restrict magazine capacity and such - which would also suck. Does 10 rounds versus 15 really make a difference? You can kill a giant with 10 rounds.

There's an article about fees to own guns.

Speaking of constitutional, which it isn't, there is a fee for a wedding license.

WSS

@calfoxwc said:

Except it's against the Constitution to charge a fee to vote

***********************

then btw, it's the against the Constitution to charge a fee to register a gun....

Nobody charges a fee to register a gun?

Concealed carry requires a decent fee though