@mld-woody said:

I'd say that's a good 70% of it. Never had this much fun out of a presidential election.

One Post From the Truth said:

God bless you too Brother.

@oldbrownsfan said:

And I understand where you are coming from. The church needs members to support the church and workers in the church. As a pastor I would pray about the needs of the church and trust God to supply the workers and the financial needs. I would not try and volunteer anyone for church service as I would want people doing jobs in Church where they feel God has placed them and not forced on them by the pastor. I have never been to a church that acted that way. I have held many positions in church but everyone of them was one that I signed up for and wanted to do. I found out quickly teaching teenagers was not my calling but I pray and thank God for those who have that calling as young people today are getting hit with a lot more things I ever did at their age.

One Post From the Truth said:

One Post From the Truth said:

I understand where you're coming from I really do. But I feel that you're taking being a member of a church lightly. You can still be welcome and give what you can. Jesus is the reason you go not tithing.

But however the church needs not only money but a tight unified group to lean on each other. For example...

If you accept a new Pastor the members vote him in not the church goer.

And I understand where you are coming from. The church needs members to support the church and workers in the church. As a pastor I would pray about the needs of the church and trust God to supply the workers and the financial needs. I would not try and volunteer anyone for church service as I would want people doing jobs in Church where they feel God has placed them and not forced on them by the pastor. I have never been to a church that acted that way. I have held many positions in church but everyone of them was one that I signed up for and wanted to do. I found out quickly teaching teenagers was not my calling but I pray and thank God for those who have that calling as young people today are getting hit with a lot more things I ever did at their age.

Obviously most candidates are going to say they're Christian. Statistically and because saying they aren't hurts their chances. But there is a difference between"I'm a Christian" and "I speak to god and the bible determines how I'll lead."

@vaportrail said:

Cmon, I know you can't stand SJWs. Just think of all the tumblr butthurt a vote for trump would cause these people. That's gotta count for something.

I feel like you just support Trump for the novelty of it haha. For the entertainment value

@oldbrownsfan said:

As a pastor I would never tell a church member who said they didn't have the money to give to the church because of financial problems not to pay their rent, or not to pay their car payment. I wouldn't want to see someone evicted or have their car re-possessed. God is way more forgiving than landlords and bankers. I wouldn't question the member such as "did you go out to eat this week". I have heard all this stuff before in church. There is nothing in the new testament about tithing and the apostle Paul who specifically gives instructions to believers in regards to giving leaves out tithing. The closest to tithing comes from Jesus in regards to Pharisees where he condemns them for their lack of compassion and their bragging about being tithers. He said they have neglected the more important issues of compassion for others. Did Jesus say they should tithe? Yes. Who was Jesus talking to? Pharisees under the law and they would be sinning not to tithe. But the law has been done away with now. Well if Jesus told them to tithe under the old testament shouldn't we use that as an example in the New Testament. No problem there. Strive to tithe but don't put yourself under bondage to it is what I am saying.

But however the church needs not only money but a tight unified group to lean on each other. For example...

If you accept a new Pastor the members vote him in not the church goer.

I asked him first if he tithed. He said no. I explained that he took being a member of a church too lightly for there are responsibilities that follow. You must maintain control of you finances along with your standing in the community. You can't drink at the bar then play member. But you can have a drink at the bar and go to church.

One Post From the Truth said:

As a pastor I would never tell a church member who said they didn't have the money to give to the church because of financial problems not to pay their rent, or not to pay their car payment. I wouldn't want to see someone evicted or have their car re-possessed. God is way more forgiving than landlords and bankers. I wouldn't question the member such as "did you go out to eat this week". I have heard all this stuff before in church. There is nothing in the new testament about tithing and the apostle Paul who specifically gives instructions to believers in regards to giving leaves out tithing. The closest to tithing comes from Jesus in regards to Pharisees where he condemns them for their lack of compassion and their bragging about being tithers. He said they have neglected the more important issues of compassion for others. Did Jesus say they should tithe? Yes. Who was Jesus talking to? Pharisees under the law and they would be sinning not to tithe. But the law has been done away with now. Well if Jesus told them to tithe under the old testament shouldn't we use that as an example in the New Testament. No problem there. Strive to tithe but don't put yourself under bondage to it is what I am saying.

@oldbrownsfan said:

I am not saying you should not tithe. You can do it if you want and you can go above tithing if you want. Of course if you go to a church you should support it but your giving is between you and God and is nobody else's business. I have been to enough churches in many decades of going to church and I know exactly what Cal is talking about. God is not concerned about your money, he is concerned about you.

In Corinthians the apostle Paul lays out a ground work for new covenant believers in regards to giving such as: regularly, without being pretentious or making a show of it, cheerfully, freely (mandatory tithing is NOT freely), Absent from what Paul says about giving is tithing. I will go with Paul's teachings about giving.

I have unfortunately met too many people through the years who started out in their Christian faith full of the joy of the Lord and were walking evangelists until they got themselves burdened down with legalism and made serving God out to be so hard where their joy that used to attract people to faith in Christ they now turned people away.

But what I'm saying is if you are a member of the church you must tithe. That's what makes a member have decide if they want to join. If you are just a church goer don't tithe. If you want to be the one who has the nicest car that is cleaned and waxed for the other members to see may as well spread the wealth.

One Post From the Truth said:

I am not saying you should not tithe. You can do it if you want and you can go above tithing if you want. Of course if you go to a church you should support it but your giving is between you and God and is nobody else's business. I have been to enough churches in many decades of going to church and I know exactly what Cal is talking about. God is not concerned about your money, he is concerned about you.

In Corinthians the apostle Paul lays out a ground work for new covenant believers in regards to giving such as: regularly, without being pretentious or making a show of it, cheerfully, freely (mandatory tithing is NOT freely), Absent from what Paul says about giving is tithing. I will go with Paul's teachings about giving.

I have unfortunately met too many people through the years who started out in their Christian faith full of the joy of the Lord and were walking evangelists until they got themselves burdened down with legalism and made serving God out to be so hard where their joy that used to attract people to faith in Christ they now turned people away.

@oldbrownsfan said:

I got tripped up on tithing early on. I was not raised in church so when I first heard about tithing in church it sounded OK and they had some bible scriptures to back it up so I thought it must be true. I had just gotten married though and we were living paycheck to paycheck and I found out soon enough about paying tithes or paying my rent. Pay your tithes they would say, talk to the landlord they will understand. I fell into it because I didn't know any better but now I know what the bible really teaches. Tithing is part of the law. The point of the law is nobody can keep it. To put yourself under strict tithing is to put yourself under bondage. Of course we should be givers and the needs are great but the Apostle Paul spells out new covenant giving and he does not mention tithing for a reason. It was part of the law and the law has been done away with. I have always been amazed at churches who preach grace right down the line until tithing and then it's the law you have to do it or you are robbing God. The whole thing is wrong (but self serving to the churches who demand it). I was talking to a Christian the other day who told me about a huge mega church where to be a member you have to give them proof of your income so they can verify you are tithing. Really really sad but most people do not search out the scriptures and follow blindly the leaders of their church.

Tithing is 10% of your income. Churches pay their bills and the Pastor not to mention free housing for him also. Many churches have outings for youth groups and help the needy as well. So that's where the money should go.

If you or a person wanting to be a member you should tithe. If you just go to church and have nothing to do with their functions then don't. If you are a member of a church and cannot afford to pay, you can do chores. Cleaning, yard mowing and even Sunday School teaching.

@calfoxwc said:

I got tripped up on tithing early on. I was not raised in church so when I first heard about tithing in church it sounded OK and they had some bible scriptures to back it up so I thought it must be true. I had just gotten married though and we were living paycheck to paycheck and I found out soon enough about paying tithes or paying my rent. Pay your tithes they would say, talk to the landlord they will understand. I fell into it because I didn't know any better but now I know what the bible really teaches. Tithing is part of the law. The point of the law is nobody can keep it. To put yourself under strict tithing is to put yourself under bondage. Of course we should be givers and the needs are great but the Apostle Paul spells out new covenant giving and he does not mention tithing for a reason. It was part of the law and the law has been done away with. I have always been amazed at churches who preach grace right down the line until tithing and then it's the law you have to do it or you are robbing God. The whole thing is wrong (but self serving to the churches who demand it). I was talking to a Christian the other day who told me about a huge mega church where to be a member you have to give them proof of your income so they can verify you are tithing. Really really sad but most people do not search out the scriptures and follow blindly the leaders of their church.

As for involvement in church anything a member does should be of their own free will and their own choice. Nobody should get volunteered for anything. As a pastor I would only want people who are happy with their involvement in church. Any teacher or worker would be doing something they wanted to do and enjoyed doing it.

@oldbrownsfan said:

*********************************

Excellent post. The religion part comes in when other people decide that you have to do this...and have to do that...

teach Bible study, mow lawn, paint rooms, fix somebody's car, attend socials, help with this cause, that cause, all sorts

of causes, don't go on vacation, tithe, give more, .... I knew a few families that tithed, couldn't afford it, and just

kept going further and further into debt and lost their home and moved into her parent's home at a farm in

another state. Bad choices. Erroneous church policies, imho.

I've had friends who did all this stuff, I did a lot, too, and it ends up you don't have your own life anymore.

Some folks thrive on it, but we don't, and our friends don't. and then there's the church splits. Three diffferent major

crises that divided the church up into two angry camps. I know families who just flat out quit, and only go to

church on Easter or Christmas because they wanted their own family's lives back.

It got to be too much, way too much, and was pretty disappointing to put so much energy into all of it, to have it

ruined by idiots you used to respect, but now hate everybody. "really?"

So, I met my Wonderful Cute Wife - she was a pastor's kid. Our church went through three church splits,

and their church went through a big one. So, her parents moved from Ohio, to take another church in Texas, and thank God,

she stayed up here.

Not dissing church going, but all too often, church is all you do. It turns out to be a slippery slope of other's expectations..

We just don't do that - we have our weekends together, doing our own stuff. We donate our time to our family members, friends and neighbors - and they have always been there for us, like when I had knee surgery, etc.... We decided when we met that we both felt the same way, for the same reasons. It was destiny !

@westside-steve said:

Although I liked the article as to the constitution I don't see Trump standing out anymore than Obama or even Bernie Sanders. You could plug in a number of names but I see the wisdom of what the framers were wanting to do with checks and balances and not having power concentrated in any one branch.

@oldbrownsfan said:

I thought this was an interesting read and speaks to me more about the wisdom of the founders of the country and the constitution and checks and balances in place.

How Trump Has Proved the Founders Right

They feared demagogues for a reason. Restore the Electoral College to its purpose!

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/trump-founding-fathers-electoral-college-213777

And of course to keep the power out of the hands of the Great unwashed.

WSS

How Trump Has Proved the Founders Right

They feared demagogues for a reason. Restore the Electoral College to its purpose!

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/trump-founding-fathers-electoral-college-213777

@calfoxwc said:

Church can be a great place to go. The great thing about churches (we are blessed in this country to have so many) are if you are not happy with the church where you at are there are plenty more to choose from. If you are expecting a perfect church you will be disillusioned because churches are composed of imperfect people. I have never followed a church or church teachings and there probably isn't any church I agree with 100 percent. I'm on board with about 95 percent of my own churches teachings which is probably as good as it gets for me.

You don't have to go to a church though to be a Christian and I'm sure there are faithful church goers I would question if they had a real conversion (by their words and actions). The apostle Paul clearly states we work out our own salvation with God. Going to church just by itself does not make you a Christian.

The main part of being a Christian is not religion it is a relationship. It is not religion or going to church. It is an individual relationship.

Second I know you'd love to blame homophobia on Christianity but White has always been that many people are just against it because it creeps them out horribly. When the issue was on the ballot it went down two resolving to feet even in States that John Kerry won.

But even though I'm not a believer I have no problem with school prayer. So? I think people who do fight tooth-and-nail against it do so to shock and offend. Which I believe is the basis of a lot of political issues.

WSS

many don't go to church/do church works/etc etc etc.

Religion is practice of worshipping/applying standardly accepted rules...etc etc etc.

We are Christians, but not religious.

"Church is a great place to go... unless there are people there..." Calfox

"The worst thing that ever happened to Christianity..... is religion" Calfox

@calfoxwc said:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/114th-congress-heavily-religious-according-to-pew-survey-close-to-92-percent-christian-132149/

"The 114th Congress...is heavily religious in its makeup, a Pew Research Center study has revealed. Close to 92 percent of representatives identify as Christians, which is almost 20 percent more than the general population, while only a single member is religiously unaffiliated."

• 57.2 percent of Congress identify as Protestants, compared to 49 percent of the American public.
• 30.7 percent of Congress identified as Roman Catholic, compared to 22 percent of the population
• 5.2 percent of Congress is Jewish, while only 2 percent of Americans answered the same.
• One single Congress woman, or 0.2 percent, identified as religiously unaffiliated. 16 percent of Americans identify as non religious.

===============================================================================================================================

So, yeah, Congress is really all over the place, religious-wise, and it'd be extremely difficult for any future Evangelical nutjob president like Cruz to get them to buy into his religious agenda...

And while we're on it, religion isn't the only nonsense that can influence the decisions of the person in the Oval Office; the person who has the power to, oh, I don't know, launch nuclear weapons? Joan Quigley ring a bell for anyone?

@calfoxwc said:

... but a conservative rightwing Christian is BAD because religion might

run the gov.

I'm callin balonie.

Senator John Thune: Bible Studies Help Lawmakers Understand They Answer to God: https://capmin.org/resources/ministry-updates/us-senator-john-thune-bible-studies-help-lawmakers-understand-they-answer-to-god/

" ...Led by Ralph Drollinger, President and Founder of Capitol Ministries, The Capitol Bible Study is presented weekly to federal Public Servants with a mission of evangelizing and leading them toward maturity in Christ.

“Ralph’s study is on the House side and they don’t have a Senate equivalent at this point, but I am very familiar with them,” Senator Thune said. “Ralph and Danielle are there to instruct, admonish, encourage, exhort, and inspire elected officials to lead their lives and conduct themselves in a way that brings glory to God, to remind us of what is important, what our priorities should be, and what we should be treasuring.”

In a profession which relies so heavily on gaining the approval of men, it’s important for elected officials to be reminded that ultimately, they must answer to God for their actions and the decisions they make, he said. (One would think that they should instead ultimately answer to the American people whom they represent, not a specific deity. - JB)

“Ralph is committed to going deep in his Bible studies to help elected officials understand the Scriptures and how the Word of God applies to what we do here,” Senator Thune said. “This is a unique environment and one in which we need to have people of faith applying that faith in a real way.”

John Thune: http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/John_Thune.htm

• Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
• Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
• Rated 0% by the HRC, indicating an anti-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
• Amend Constitution to define traditional marriage. (Jun 2008)
• Supports a Constitutional Amendment for school prayer. (May 1997)
• Rated 100% by the AU, indicating opposition to separation of church & state. (Jan 2013)
• Voted with Republican Party 91.0% of 324 votes. (Sep 2007)

==============================================================================================================================

And that's just one theocratic nutjob in Congress (incidentally, the same man whom you've stated to support for presidential candidacy in 2020); the same 92% Christian Congress who's "all over the place", and who's supposed to "work" with a potential religious zealot President like Cruz...and we're to trust them to not make governmental decisions based on religious ideology? Sure....