Mudfly...I totally hear what you are saying. The odds of several players "all of the sudden being good" are pretty slim. BUT, not impossible. I say this because many players and analysts repeatedly pointed out how the previous coaching staff used many guys ineffectively or out of position. Players were asked to do things they weren't good at and it was obvious at times. Perhaps now we have a staff that will know how to use what talent we have the correct way. This gives me the most hope for players reaching new levels of productivity. Mingo has another chance, and while odds are against him, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little bit interested in seeing him play with Horton and bulked up a bit.

Kruger is a guy who had 11 sacks before and also forced some humongous fumbles. He's at least proven he can do it, so with him I feel like he can be used more efficiently and his production can increase. We may have had a worse defensive coordinator than we thought. I could be wrong, but something tells me we're going to know pretty quickly whether or not our players completely suck or our previous coaches were very dumb.

Losing Desmond Bryant completely screws us, and we're going to see much more of Carl Nassib than maybe we thought. He's still "skinny" for a 3-4 DE, but he's the hardest worker I've heard of, and I wouldn't put it past the guy to be productive.

Oh, but didn't you hear Defensive Ends in the 3-4 have no responsibility to rush the passer....they are just there to defend the run and to gobble up blocks so the OLBs can do all the pass rushing.

Gilbert is the true wildcard here. Right now, we expect him to return kicks and basically be invisible other than that. Our coaches are going out of their way to say glowing things about him, and we don't know if it's simply a psychological tactic by our staff to coax the most from Gilbert, or if the guy truly "gets it" now and is ready to use his immense physical gifts the correct way. Smart money says Gilbert will never live up to billing, but again, can a more talented coaching staff massage better results from this roster? Did Gilbert just need some to believe in him? To give him a fresh start? It's not like Gilbert was some reach at #8. Many teams wanted him badly, including Steelers. Definitely rooting for him. I just think what he could mean to our team...to have cornerback depth...ugh. Cmon Justin!

Gilbert? He has played like Melissa Gilbert.....at least maybe at some point he can play like Gilbert Gottfried.

Or a huge surprise?....not to be a negative nellie, but what are the odds that Kruger, Gilbert, Mingo, Erving and Kirksey will suddenly "get good"????....after a combined 18 years of "not good" play, why would they suddenly get it????.....

Guys can mature and get better.....AND, they can be better utilized. No one was any good in Jim O'Neils system. Kruger has proven good in the past....these guys may get better....

And I expect more better things from Orchard, Cooper, Shelton et al as well.

Agreed.....We need difference makers...and really dont have any game changing or dominant players on D.....not a one.....yeah, we have some good ones....but so does every other team.....

Ill take anybody having a break out year.....haven't really had one of those on D in a while.......and a few would be even better....

Ogbah, Schobert, Nassib.....could help as well.

We need several guys to massively step up..... To the point, we need Gilbert, Kruger, Mingo, Erving,(Kirksey) and a host of others to "get it".

I don't expect a badass, stalwart defense, but I am hopeful it can be a nice little surprise.

To the point, we need Haden, Gilbert, Kruger, Mingo, Erving, and a host of others to "get it". Jiggin

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okay, I was good with your post til you included Haden in with all that. Haden got banged up last year,

the whole team was demoralized and was run by coaches who were not smart. He's been all-pro.

How much more "getting it" does he need to do?

To the point, we need Haden, Gilbert, Kruger, Mingo, Erving, and a host of others to "get it". Jiggin

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okay, I was good with your post til you included Haden in with all that. Haden got banged up last year,

the whole team was demoralized and was run by coaches who were not smart. He's been all-pro.

How much more "getting it" does he need to do?

Ha...yes....Kruger needs to go for us to improve. I see Orchard as the first step and, hopefully, Ogbah or Mingo or Schobert bring some more athleticism to the position.....If Kruges is still playing significant minutes, then that means we didnt get better.....

what good is a linebacker who cant tackle or cover and gets to the QB once every 150 attempts?.....blech.....

@flugel said:

Any positions excite you in particular?

Cant say I feel like we got a lot better at any one position, though I am excited that we tapped so many new linebackers. With all the new guys(is it 5??) Id expect one or 2 to rise and improve the level of play we've been seeing the past few years

What players are you most intrigued by?

Ill go with the 2 later round LB's....Schobert and Scooby......got a feeling one of em will step up.....

Do any names make you think - I forgot about him, glad he's still here?

No....well, maybe Haden.....if he returns to form. If he doesnt, it'll be a long year on the D side....

A lot of our DBs and LBs can crack in as STs players - who do you want us to keep an eye on?

Mentioned above.....Schobert and Scooby.....

Do we have enough "big men that can run and little guys that can hit" for Horton Hears a Hue?

No. I think it'll be a year or 2 before this D takes the next step.....

What guys do you think will respond best to Horton's scheme?

Mingo did well as a rookie under Horton and, Im hoping, that they find a way to propel Gilbert toward reaching his potential.....2 physical talents that no one has been able to capitalize on......

It'll be fun to see what guys benefit most from their 1st year of experience on the field and via offseason conditioning. Who do you think will fall into this category?

Campbell is the one Id expect to take a large step forward. Should be a strong box safety and give us some solid tackling in place of Whitner. The other possibility is Shelton, who I think will be solid solid solid.......

Do we have the ingredients to hurry more passers and create more turnovers?

Eh....not so sure about this.....Ogbah is the only hope and Im not a fan of the ole DE becomes LB routine......maybe the 6th time is the charm.....

How do you think our front 7 will be at stopping the run?

Id expect the same or worse......dont really see an obvious position that we got better at.....Dansby and Starks may have been long in the tooth, but right now, I dont see replacements that I can say are an upgrade....(just some potential and hope)

How do you think our LB Corps will be at dropping into their coverage zones on time to be effective?

As long as Kruger isnt playing.....will someone cut this guy already???!!!

edit....forgot about Orchard, who I also expect to see take a big step forward....he could be our best hope for improving the pass rush....now, who will be his counter part on the other side....Ogbah?... Mingo?....Schobert?.....

@flugel said:

Any positions excite you in particular?

Cant say I feel like we got a lot better at any one position, though I am excited that we tapped so many new linebackers. With all the new guys(is it 5??) Id expect one or 2 to rise and improve the level of play we've been seeing the past few years

What players are you most intrigued by?

Ill go with the 2 later round LB's....Schobert and Scooby......got a feeling one of em will step up.....

Do any names make you think - I forgot about him, glad he's still here?

No....well, maybe Haden.....if he returns to form. If he doesnt, it'll be a long year on the D side....

A lot of our DBs and LBs can crack in as STs players - who do you want us to keep an eye on?

Mentioned above.....Schobert and Scooby.....

Do we have enough "big men that can run and little guys that can hit" for Horton Hears a Hue?

No. I think it'll be a year or 2 before this D takes the next step.....

What guys do you think will respond best to Horton's scheme?

Mingo did well as a rookie under Horton and, Im hoping, that they find a way to propel Gilbert toward reaching his potential.....2 physical talents that no one has been able to capitalize on......

It'll be fun to see what guys benefit most from their 1st year of experience on the field and via offseason conditioning. Who do you think will fall into this category?

Campbell is the one Id expect to take a large step forward. Should be a strong box safety and give us some solid tackling in place of Whitner. The other possibility is Shelton, who I think will be solid solid solid.......

Do we have the ingredients to hurry more passers and create more turnovers?

Eh....not so sure about this.....Ogbah is the only hope and Im not a fan of the ole DE becomes LB routine......maybe the 6th time is the charm.....

How do you think our front 7 will be at stopping the run?

Id expect the same or worse......dont really see an obvious position that we got better at.....Dansby and Starks may have been long in the tooth, but right now, I dont see replacements that I can say are an upgrade....(just some potential and hope)

How do you think our LB Corps will be at dropping into their coverage zones on time to be effective?

As long as Kruger isnt playing.....will someone cut this guy already???!!!

edit....forgot about Orchard, who I also expect to see take a big step forward....he could be our best hope for improving the pass rush....now, who will be his counter part on the other side....Ogbah?... Mingo?....Schobert?.....

Any positions excite you in particular?

Cant say I feel like we got a lot better at any one position, though I am excited that we tapped so many new linebackers. With all the new guys(is it 5??) Id expect one or 2 to rise and improve the level of play we've been seeing the past few years

What players are you most intrigued by?

Ill go with the 2 later round LB's....Schobert and Scooby......got a feeling one of em will step up.....

Do any names make you think - I forgot about him, glad he's still here?

No....well, maybe Haden.....if he returns to form. If he doesnt, it'll be a long year on the D side....

A lot of our DBs and LBs can crack in as STs players - who do you want us to keep an eye on?

Mentioned above.....Schobert and Scooby.....

Do we have enough "big men that can run and little guys that can hit" for Horton Hears a Hue?

No. I think it'll be a year or 2 before this D takes the next step.....

What guys do you think will respond best to Horton's scheme?

Mingo did well as a rookie under Horton and, Im hoping, that they find a way to propel Gilbert toward reaching his potential.....2 physical talents that no one has been able to capitalize on......

It'll be fun to see what guys benefit most from their 1st year of experience on the field and via offseason conditioning. Who do you think will fall into this category?

Campbell is the one Id expect to take a large step forward. Should be a strong box safety and give us some solid tackling in place of Whitner. The other possibility is Shelton, who I think will be solid solid solid.......

Do we have the ingredients to hurry more passers and create more turnovers?

Eh....not so sure about this.....Ogbah is the only hope and Im not a fan of the ole DE becomes LB routine......maybe the 6th time is the charm.....

How do you think our front 7 will be at stopping the run?

Id expect the same or worse......dont really see an obvious position that we got better at.....Dansby and Starks may have been long in the tooth, but right now, I dont see replacements that I can say are an upgrade....(just some potential and hope)

How do you think our LB Corps will be at dropping into their coverage zones on time to be effective?

As long as Kruger isnt playing.....will someone cut this guy already???!!!

edit....forgot about Orchard, who I also expect to see take a big step forward....he could be our best hope for improving the pass rush....now, who will be his counter part on the other side....Ogbah?... Mingo?....Schobert?.....

Here's a look at our roster on Defense heading into training camp where we can expect good competition for starting jobs, situational roles, and active roster spots. I'll apologize in advance for the crappy job I did with specifying what roles I see for some guys.

Defensive Line:

Danny Shelton DT/NT

Jamie Meder DT/NT

John Hughes III DT

Xavier Cooper DE/5 Tech

Desmond Bryant DE/5 Tech

Carl Nassib DE

Dylan Wynn DE

Nile Lawrence-Stample DL

Rose Kyle DL

Cam Johnson DL

Linebacker:

Demario Davis ILB

Christian Kirksey ILB

Scooby Ruh-Wright ILB/OLB - They are already talking about using him on STs

Joe Schobert OLB/ILB - I'm also hearing about a potential role on STs with him

Nate Orchard OLB

Emmanuel Ogbah OLB

Barkevious Mingo OLB

Paul Kruger OLB

Tank Carder ILB - Good special teams player with upside on trial

Armonty Bryant OLB - Very disappointed in the trouble he couldn't resist off the field

Dominique Alexander LB

Justin Tuggle LB

Jackson Jeffcoat LB

Defensive Backs:

Joe Haden CB

Tramon Williams CB

K'Wuan Williams CB

Jamar Taylor CB

Justin Gilbert CB - Offers STs ability. How will he respond to changes and experience as a Corner?

Pierre Desir CB

Charles Gaines CB

Ibraheim Campbell SS

Jordan Poyer FS

Don Jones FS

Rahim Moore S

Derrick Kindred S

A.J. Stamps DB

Tim Scott DB

Eric Patterson DB

If I left anyone out or kept somebody on that's already departed - please let me know. Since the goal here in the doldrums of summer is discussion - here's some questions you can feel free to answer as many as you want or share something else on your mind.

Any positions excite you in particular?

Yes, I really believe we may have a solid LB core for once. I was happy they drafted so many- Schobert and Scooby should push the vets.

What players are you most intrigued by?

Do any names make you think - I forgot about him, glad he's still here?

A lot of our DBs and LBs can crack in as STs players - who do you want us to keep an eye on?

Do we have enough "big men that can run and little guys that can hit" for Horton Hears a Hue?

What guys do you think will respond best to Horton's scheme?

It'll be fun to see what guys benefit most from their 1st year of experience on the field and via offseason conditioning. Who do you think will fall into this category?

Do we have the ingredients to hurry more passers and create more turnovers?

Yes. Hopefully immediately, but it may take a bit of time to develop.

How do you think our front 7 will be at stopping the run?

How do you think our LB Corps will be at dropping into their coverage zones on time to be effective?

I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts about the Defense...

So many new faces, and a new staff, but I like the plan. Horton's been around, with his experience I'm hopeful the D will produce. My only concern is with so much youth, will they grasp the scheme(s)?

As for 'strong safety'... keep in mind there really isn't such a thing with Horton. The backend DB's in his defense are to be interchangeable (per his own words)

They signed a 26 year old veteran Free Safety - Rahim Moore. That doesn't change the experience level at Strong Safety though.

Someone brought up moving Mingo to Safety before. That can be a bad idea and it can be a good idea. The worry with putting him in the back tier of defense is he's not a very good tackler for a few reasons: 1) he's got the instincts of a raccoon crossing a highway at night time, 2) has piss poor fundamentals (partly from playing through a painful shoulder injury and partly from not being in enough control to square up to form tackle people, 3) he doesn't always keep his head up in pursuit often leading to over-pursuit or vulnerability to change of direction. A lot of his issues can be solved with coaching, repetition, and weekly preparation for tendencies...

The positive is he's got long levers to go with his 6'4" frame and ideal fitness which could all come in handy in coverage. He's always hustling, which shows me a work ethic an innovative mind coordinating our defense might be able to tap. Oh yeah, back to a zone blitz scheme that likes to blitz it's Strong Safety in a variety of ways ranging from x-stunts to delayed x-stunts to an anticipated vulnerable gap of a protection up front your central intelligence/coaching staff identified preparing for an offense's tendency. One of the best blitzes I ever saw from Mingo was a delayed x stunt from the outside and as soon as the OG locked up on someone - Mingo closed at the speed of light and sacked the QB.

Why all that? I thought I remembered hearing Horton say he had a different plan for Mingo this year than he had the last time. It could be that kind of thinking outside the box that puts Mingo at SS. The Dick LeBeau defense not only loves to blitz the SS, but he also likes his SS to camp out in the box after the snap.

On the other hand, Mingo finally bulked up to about 260 lbs this off-season so he might have Taylor Mays'd himself out of any thoughts of playing Safety. Stay tuned...

A Happy Wife is a Happy Life. And a Happy Football team is a group of guys who love the game,

are smart and talented, and want to WIN, with no soap opera crap, from players or anybody else.