I'm ending the draft picks vs rap video thing here. If you want to be an insufferable child about it I'll let you. But I'm done. No one disagreed with you and your walking around beating your chest in victory...

Then why are your knickers in such a twist about it?

Math. People saw 15-1 as a god bet. They put money on Michigan. So much that the odds moved to 7-1.

I think there is more to it.

Yes, the draft next year. I am confident Michigan will have a better draft class than OSU barring all of the Jrs sticking around.

Sure, that is the early conjecture. We haven't seen how these OSU backups will perform now that they are starters. Who knows....perhaps some stars will emerge. You are welcome.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2016/07/ohio_states_jt_barrett_michiga.html There's a Big Ten Media poll on the preseason to Defensive and Offensive players in the B1G. Having the #1, #5 and #7 player on the defensive list is leading people to think we'll have an elite defensive. That is leading into the title hype (which I still think is too soon)

JT Barrett pretty much sliced and diced that defense up last year...to the tune of 42-13. Weren't #1, #5 and #7 on that team? Not so elite...so, yea, it is a lot way to soon for any title hype. (but, sure...EZ E won't be there this year...and he mauled that defense as well)

That is a fucked up Michigan depth chart. The general idea that we have a lot of starters returning is true though.

@mld-woody said:

Ugh... A normal exchange with gipper I guess...

Yes, you were right originally. But you basically said water is wet and I never disagreed.

If by that you mean that having 5 first round draft picks is a better recruiting tool than a rap video....of course it is like saying water is wet....yet, you would probably twist yourself into a pretzel to try to qualify that basic fact.

You said 15-1, that's where we started. It's 7-1 now. That's the more up to date info.

And...I asked, if so....what happened to change that number so drastically. Having the odds halved is a drastic change? The release of a rap video?

Sure...the reason the number moves if because more money, apparently, is being bet on TUN to win the title.

But, again, what happened for all that much more money to fall that way?

It could not have been faith in the recruiting class....as that class was determined months ago...and this changed just happened in the last few weeks.

What about the Michigan program has changed so greatly to the positive to have betters put their money down for them?

The rap video? Faith in Harbaugh?

(Or did just one huge, wealthy Michigan supporter make a million dollar bet?)

You explain it....if you can.

What would you do if I provided a list? You'd say the OSU players are better and leave it at that

Are you now talking about the draft for next year?

I can only assume that you have not given a list because you are not confident in that list.

Honestly...I don't know if the OSU players are better. I only know that they lost 15 NFL caliber players, at least.

Of course, as you say, the cupboard is never bare.....but perhaps the Michigan players would be more experienced, proven..where OSU players would be unproven.

I would expect that OSU would have far fewer returning starters than TUN....given what they each lost to the draft.

QB Wilton Speight-So Shane Morris-Sr

FB Henry Poggi-Jr ..

TB De'Veon Smith-Sr Drake Johnson-Sr / Ty Isaac-Jr / Derrick Green-Sr

WR Amara Darboh-Sr Grant Perry-So / Maurice Ways-So

WR Jehu Chesson-Sr Drake Harris-So / Freddy Canteen-Jr

TE Jake Butt-Sr Khalid Hill-Jr / Ian Bunting-So

OT Mason Cole-Jr ..

OG Ben Braden-Sr .. C .. ..

OG Kyle Kalis-Sr ..

OT Erik Magnuson-Sr ..

K Kenny Allen-Sr ..

DE Taco Charlton-Sr ..

NT Ryan Glasgow-Sr Maurice Hurst-Jr

DT Chris Wormley-Sr Matt Godin-Sr BUCK .. .. ILB .. .. ILB .. ..

OLB Ben Gedeon-Sr ..

CB Jourdan Lewis-Sr Brandon Watson-So

CB Jabrill Peppers-So Jeremy Clark-Sr / Channing Stribling-Sr

SS Delano Hill-Sr Dymonte Thomas-Sr FS .. .. P .. ..

So, it appears that Ohio State has only 6 returning starters, where Michigan has 15...

We shall see how things work out.

QB J.T. Barrett-Jr ..

RB Warren Ball-Sr

HB Curtis Samuel-Jr Dontre Wilson-Sr WR .. .. WR .. ..

TE Marcus Baugh-Jr .. OT .. ..

OG Billy Price-Jr .. C .. ..

OG Pat Elfein-Sr .. OT .. ..

K Sean Nuernberger-Jr ..

DE Sam Hubbard-So .. DT .. ..

DT Michael Hill-Jr ..

DE Tyquan Lewis-Jr Jalyn Holmes-Jr

SLB Chris Worley-Jr ..

MLB Raekwon McMillan-Jr ..

WLB Dante Booker-Jr ..

CB Gareon Conley-Jr .. CB .. .. S .. ..

S Malik Hooker-So ..

P Cameron Johnston-Sr ..

Ugh... A normal exchange with gipper I guess...

Yes, you were right originally. But you basically said water is wet and I never disagreed.

If by that you mean that having 5 first round draft picks is a better recruiting tool than a rap video....of course it is like saying water is wet....yet, you would probably twist yourself into a pretzel to try to qualify that basic fact.

You said 15-1, that's where we started. It's 7-1 now. That's the more up to date info.

And...I asked, if so....what happened to change that number so drastically. Having the odds halved is a drastic change? The release of a rap video?

Sure...the reason the number moves if because more money, apparently, is being bet on TUN to win the title.

But, again, what happened for all that much more money to fall that way?

It could not have been faith in the recruiting class....as that class was determined months ago...and this changed just happened in the last few weeks.

What about the Michigan program has changed so greatly to the positive to have betters put their money down for them?

The rap video? Faith in Harbaugh?

(Or did just one huge, wealthy Michigan supporter make a million dollar bet?)

You explain it....if you can.

What would you do if I provided a list? You'd say the OSU players are better and leave it at that

Are you now talking about the draft for next year?

I can only assume that you have not given a list because you are not confident in that list.

Honestly...I don't know if the OSU players are better. I only know that they lost 15 NFL caliber players, at least.

Of course, as you say, the cupboard is never bare.....but perhaps the Michigan players would be more experienced, proven..where OSU players would be unproven.

I would expect that OSU would have far fewer returning starters than TUN....given what they each lost to the draft.

Ok, where to start...

I never made the claim that a rap video was better than producing NFL success.

Yes, OSU had a ton of draft picks last year. But I wouldn't say Harbaugh or his staff is lacking in that department. Either looking at all of the NFL experience our staff has (our DL coach was Ed Reed and Ray Lewis' DC...) or the NFL talent that has come out of Harbaugh's programs (Andrew Luck?).

I never said the cupboard is bare. It clearly isn't. OSU's cupboard will never be bare. (I think the statute of limitations is up on anything Tressel might have done.)

In other words....I was right about everything I said. Thank you for your support.

Odds on ESPN through Westgate Las Vegas Superbook as of July 4th has Michigan with the 2nd best odds at 7:1. Only behind Bama at 5:1. The most money has been bet on Michigan in Vegas as well. I don't think you were looking at the most up to date odds.

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/14667271/ncaaf-2017-college-football-playoff-national-championship-futures-odds-westgate-las-vegas-superbook

This is the same source I looked at. Either my information is more up to date or yours is. Not sure.

Why? A few reasons:

- We are going to have an elite defense. Read up on it if you'd like. With the players that decided to come back, Peppers, Don Brown, etc we should have a top defense.

- Our biggest question mark is QB, which is normally a big concern. But that's Harbaugh's position and he has a good track record coaching it. That minimizes the concern some.

- We have a very easy OOC schedule. We'll have almost half of the season to get ready for difficult games. We do have OSU, MSU and Iowa all on the road, which is tough, but outside of that we're in a good spot.

- Habaurgh Hype. Honestly, not the biggest fan. We're way too overhyped right now.

Given all that, I don't see why TUN should have jumped from a 15-1 odds to a 7-1 odds...or dropped,,,,other than the money as Axe said. What did they do between one odds making publication to the next to improve if they did?

Oh, yea. Harbaugh released a rap video.....that must be all it takes.

It looks like you answered your own "prove it!" request. I mean, if you do some research

I did the research....I did your job for you.

, we have A LOT of NFL prospects on the team this year (they might not all declare). I mean, we've been down this path before. I could post football sites saying we have a bunch of talent, but providing sources hasn't helped with you in the past (Michigan academics, recruiting rankings, etc).

I only stopped at rounds one and two.....I guess I could have gone further down....but I decided to stop right there and leave some of that work to you. Who beyond the first two rounds are expected to be drafted from TUN and OSU?

So yes, I would take the bet we have a better draft class than OSU this year. Obviously a long way away, and shit can happen, but I'd still take it over the internet.

Depends where ya look I guess. The first place I looked had Michigan and Ohio State at 15-1

All I know is the Big 10 is better when Michigan is good and they are getting there.

Interesting that Vegas odds have Michigan rated highest to win the Championship this year. 2nd is the Buckeyes, LOL.

Really?

Yes.....having five first round draft picks come out of your program is a better recruiting tool than doing a rap video.....do you disagree?

Harbaughs first year of guys he didn't even recruit vs one of the best years OSU (or any school) has had? That's your reasoning to show Urbz beats Harbaugh in recruiting?

Yes....it shows that not only did he recruit well...he coached well. Besides, I am talking about the respective value of recruiting tools...not about what may have happened in recruiting in the past. HIs track record is what it is.

I mean... He only signed the unanimous #1 overall player last class.

Do you think a rap video convinced him to go there? (of course, he may have been ranked #1....but will he perform up to that? Plus you have to look at the overall recruiting class).

I'd also make a bet right now we have a better draft class this year than OSU does. Assuming a normal number of Jrs declare and Harbaugh doesn't convince every one to stay.

Well, OSU did "lose" at least 12 players to the draft....plus 3-4 others that were picked up as UDFA.

But, if you think that the cupboard is bare...I guess we shall just see.

And of course I could say: Prove it! Who are all these great Michigan players that are going to be draft eligible next spring? Compared to who may come out from OSU?