@the-gipper said:

I take it that these are in order of the PFR Career Average stat?

Apparently yes, maybe a good barometer on the relative value of players.

Cleveland Browns Career Approximate Value Leaders

Seasons: 68 (1946 to 2016)

Record (W-L-T): 508-455-13

Playoff Record: 16-20 <------- THIS ONE ALWAYS GOT ME! LESS THAN .500?

Super Bowls Won: 0 (0 Appearances)

Championships Won*: 8

All-time Passing Leader: Brian Sipe 1,944/3,439, 23,713 yds, 154 TD

All-time Rushing Leader: Jim Brown 2,359 att, 12,312 yds, 106 TD

All-time Receiving Leader: Ozzie Newsome 662 rec, 7,980 yds, 47 TD

All-time Scoring Leader: Lou Groza 1,608 points

All-time AV Leader: Clay Matthews 124 AV

Winningest Coach: Paul Brown 158-48-8

@mudfly said:

I think you're going to have to wait until after a few games to see.

There should be a few rookies that stand out (Nassib, Coleman come to mind). Orchard & Ogbah have potential.

@mjp28 said:

I take it that these are in order of the PFR Career Average stat?

26 Robert Jackson 1975 1985 160 RG 63

27 Tom DeLeone 1974 1984 149 C 61

28 Bob Golic 1982 1988 97 NT 60

29 Ernie Green 1962 1968 89 HB 60

Rk Player From To G Pos AV

30 John Morrow 1960 1966 90 C 59

31 John Wooten 1959 1967 122 LG 59

32 Charlie Hall 1971 1980 146 LLB 58

33 Mike Johnson 1986 1993 112 MLB 56

34 Milt Morin 1966 1975 129 TE 56

35 Chip Banks 1982 1986 73 LOLB 55

36 Dan Fike 1985 1992 112 RG 55

37 Bill Glass 1962 1968 94 RDE 55

38 Paul Wiggin 1957 1967 146 LDE 55

39 Mike Baab 1982 1991 114 C 53

40 D'Qwell Jackson 2006 2013 97 RILB 53

41 Reggie Rucker 1975 1981 103 WR 53

42 Kevin Mack 1985 1993 99 FB 52

43 Bernie Parrish 1959 1966 94 LCB 52

44 Earnest Byner 1984 1995 99 RB 51

45 Vince Costello 1957 1966 130 MLB 51

46 Tony Jones 1988 1995 109 LT 50

47 Orpheus Roye 2000 2007 113 LDE 49

48 Paul Farren 1983 1991 132 LT 47

49 Dick Ambrose 1975 1983 116 MLB 46

50 Monte Clark 1963 1969 89 RT 46

And look carefully shows where you go to build a championship contending team.

1 Clay Matthews 1978 1993 232 ROLB 124

2 Jim Brown 1957 1965 118 FB 122

3 Dick Schafrath 1959 1971 176 LT 115

4 Gene Hickerson 1958 1973 202 RG 111

5 Leroy Kelly 1964 1973 136 RB 102

6 Joe Thomas 2007 2015 144 LT 96

7 Doug Dieken 1971 1984 203 LT 92

8 Brian Sipe 1974 1983 125 QB 88

9 Gary Collins 1962 1971 127 FL 87

10 Hanford Dixon 1981 1989 131 RCB 80

11 Frank Ryan 1962 1968 84 QB 80

12 Jim Houston 1960 1972 177 LLB 78

13 Michael Perry 1988 1994 109 RDT 78

14 Greg Pruitt 1973 1981 118 RB 78

15 Cody Risien 1979 1989 146 RT 78

16 Clarence Scott 1971 1983 186 LCB 78

17 Ozzie Newsome 1978 1990 198 TE 77

18 Walter Johnson 1965 1976 168 LDT 76

19 Bernie Kosar 1985 1993 108 QB 75

20 Paul Warfield 1964 1977 97 WR 75

21 Frank Minnifield 1984 1992 122 LCB 71

22 Don Cockroft 1968 1980 188 K 69

23 Jerry Sherk 1970 1981 147 RDT 68

24 Thom Darden 1972 1981 128 FS 64

25 Mike Pruitt 1976 1984 124 FB 64

@alkid3 said:

Patty?

I'm really hoping Cameron Irving and Danny Shelton step it up in their respective positions, both lines are weak. Defense has looked shitty all 3 games. Time will tell, there are a bunch of rookies with potential to save this team from going 0-16.

@tour2ma said:

Per Pro-Football-Reference's AV ratings:

• JT (96)
• Joe Haden (40)
• John Greco (21)
• Paul Kruger (21)
• Des Bryant (20)
• RG3 (20)
• Josh Gordon (19)
• Barkevious Mingo (11)
• Joel Bitonio (10)
• Gary Barnidge (9)

HA! Take that!

@stillmotion said:

Exactly what I was alluding to with the phone call. Besides fulfilling my prophecy, it makes sense. McC's value may never be higher.

Realistically any games he might win for us will make no difference to our payoff chances. Add that he's an old QB in the last year of his contract and it's a no-brainer... IMO.

@mudfly said:

Seems the Browns LOVE 4-3 DE's who they will then ask to play 3-4 LB positions...

... or 3-4 DE.

Seems the Browns LOVE 4-3 DE's who they will then ask to play 3-4 LB positions.....Mingo, Kruger, Orchard, Armonty and Ogbah are all traditional DE's being wedged into LB roles that diminish their skills and hurt our team.....and then, we take DT's and turn them into ends.....blech...

Horton is a key here, because he loves the ole DE to OLB conversion.....did it with Kruger & Mingo and, NOW, is messing with Ogbah......no likey....let Ogbah play ONE FUCKING POSTION and learn it.....stop messing with what makes these guys good....

Hope Horty is reading this and, eventually, learns from his mistakes....so far?.....not so much....

@texasag1969 said:

I have high hopes for Nassib. I see a very fast, athletic guy who can be built to a fine edge by a really good strength & conditioning coach. Might take a year or two, but the base building block is there. But for him and Ogbah both, we need a 4-3, not a 3-4.

That's what I see, a guy with a high motor and a nose for the football.

@mudfly said:

yep, oh wait you forgot Dominate Danny Shelton

pro-football-reference as reliable as Pro Football Focus

I sincerely hope we don't trade Mccown to Dallas now. Then we'd be sooo F#$%ed if RG3 goes down.

@tour2ma said:

Or maybe, "Hello Johnny. How's that rehab program working out for you?"

Meanwhile I wonder if a phone has rung yet... "Hello, Jimmah. This is Jerrah."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000691153/article/jason-garrett-tony-romo-has-broken-bone-in-his-back

So.....statistically....Mingo & Kruger are considered 2 of our best "proven" players......and Barny's one season gets him on the list, along with Desmond who is out for the season(and a guy I was bitching about just 2 years ago)....

Yep....exactly as I thought.....some of our VERY BEST, wouldnt even start for 1/2 the teams in the league......

1. JT (96)
2. Joe Haden (40)
3. John Greco (21)
4. Paul Kruger (21)
5. Des Bryant (20)
6. RG3 (20)
7. Josh Gordon (19)
8. Barkevious Mingo (11)
9. Joel Bitonio (10)
10. Gary Barnidge (9)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/career-av.htm

HA! Take that!

@mudfly said:

Ha!.....didnt think so....

Nuff said.....