@mudfly said:

Rumor has it, Mud will be at mardi-gra in N.O. running the streets naked with #99 painted on his Front & Back? (go on, you deserve it ) Party a little

@flyingfooldoug said:

I would agree,,,,

They were terrible with him and equally terrible without....

Heck, they almost looked "ok"....(almost)....against the Bears 2's......

@mudfly said:

Me too. Just don't want them to keep pluging square pegs into round holes. Switch the D to fit the players.

@calfoxwc said:

That would be my wish.....

Zombo said:

How many ex coaches are the Browns still paying, I wonder.

@jiggins7919 said:

Disagree that Ray is in trouble precisely because it is not "not his fault"... at least not now... because we are starting "2nd string" depth virtually across the board.

He has to show two things:

1. that he can maximize what he has... whether it's through more 4-3... great situational use of players... whatever... he has to maximize what he has.
2. that his staff can develop players.

On Danny... stats are going to be hard for him to come by with every play starting with a double team of #55. Just not enough on his flanks to keep that from happening.

And I have bad news. Our defense will probably get worse before it gets better. The reason? Depth. Injuries happen to every team, and when they start to mount on a team like ours, they become especially devastating because we don't have the depth of better teams. We'll need another year or two of quality drafting and occasional free agent signing, and then we can have a product that we're proud of. This is where the "it takes time and patience" adage comes into play. We finally have a coach that other teams wanted, and we have a DC with experience. Perhaps now we can FINALLY give a regime the proper amount of time to build our bedraggled franchise.

I don't want to sound like it's all doom and gloom either. There's a chance, albeit small, that multiple young players on our team can ascend to a higher level of play and anchor our defense. Players like Nate Orchard, Chris Kirksey, Carl Nassib, Emmanuel Ogbah, Joe Schobert and others can explode onto the scene and catch people by surprise. It happens in the league every year, maybe it's our turn?

As I have said in multiple posts, the player on the defense I'm most interested in watching is Danny Shelton. Growing pains should be over. The rookie season is in the past. We've heard about his dedication to losing weight and training in various forms of martial arts, so NOW is the time to prove we weren't total idiots by drafting a player at #12 that MANY people didn't like in the football world. Not everyone was against it, not by far, but I remember reading enough analysts say that we drafted a two-down player too high, and the fact that he got pushed around by better teams worried them. He hasn't yet begun his second year, so it's far too early to judge him, but early reports are NOT good. Shelton did force one fumble that was VERY nice, but other than that, he's been a disappointment. And what's scary is, he's been ineffective against second team players. We need to snap the first round curse, and it needs to start with this guy.

@d-bone said:

umm...Bradford will most probably have a field day against our defense.

Ray Horton is pretty much screwed at this point.

The defense he's been given is missing, from last year's team, it's best DLineman, it's best LBer, 2 outside LBer's and both starting safetys. And many of the replacements are raw rookies and backups. -Good luck with that-

@mudfly said:

Not what I'm saying, and you know it.

I don't mind bitching, moaning and whining on game day, as lord knows I have said some choice things in my life during the game, that if someone were to of recorded it and posted it on TwitterBookAgram, I would be the most hated man in America.

However the incessant crying here before they have even played a single F U C K I N G game, is just mind numbing. At least give Hue and the FO, oh I don't know, a whole quarter or heck, maybe even two before proclaiming them the next former Browns' employees.

For anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, to say the 2016 draft was/is good or bad at this stage proves to me they are completely clueless on how athletics work. Maybe the Browns drafted 14 guys who'll be out of the league in 3 years, and maybe they drafted 14 future HoFs, and maybe they drafted somewhere in between, however no one will know for a few years until the 14 guys play themselves in to, or out of the league.

I'm going to give Hue and the FO time to prove themselves before I start to cry and whine.... How much time? That I don't know, but I'll know it when I see it, but what I do know is week 3 of their first pre-season is not the time.

I'll be in the Tavern in two Sundays ready to cheer, yell and bitch and I'm betting some forum members will be all bitched out by then and will simply sleep through the Browns' opening day win.

@d-bone said:

Ok....sorry for my honesty....Ill join the chorus...

Hue is great

Sashi is great

the draft was great

all of those players will be great

I cant wait till 4 years is up, cause we will be great!!!!!

There....that about covers it....nice discussion.

Zombo said:

I hope Pettine is on a yacht full of booze, broads and cigars throwing strikes at his JFF dartboard.

Zombo

@mudfly said:

Tough to keep the threads separated, what with every single one of them being full of whining and crying about one thing or the other...... My bad.

Think I'll go back to my mountain biking forums and just watch the games when they're finally on, as the anticipatory doom & gloom 'round these parts is just too soul sucking.

@d-bone said:

Gotta read the thread D Bone....no one is saying his dismissal was a conspiracy and DEFINITELY no one is in love with Kruger...

Haven't seen one comment that suggests he deserved anything but to be cut.....

Zombo said:

HA!.....me too....

Zombo

@tour2ma said:

If Pet had still been around when JM was finally sent packing, you might not have been able to say that.

Hilarious!

Zombo said:

If Pet had still been around when JM was finally sent packing, you might not have been able to say that.

@unsympathetic said:

If there is a defense that is likely to be worse than the Browns, it is the Saints.

@clevfan4life said:

No one was touching that contract.

Zombo

--GMs scouring the league for 30 year old LBs making 2.5 sacks per year and making $8 Mil.