Do you realize they are ALL the results of trade backs???....exactly the great idea you're saying this FO came up with?.....Mud

*********************************************

Mud - here's what I don't get - the new criteria that the Browns drafted the last draft with..

they would NEVER HAVE DRAFTED any of those guys. None of them fit the new Browns coaches and fo's criteria.

WTH? It isn't that they also traded back - it's that they draft for LOVE OF THE GAME, INTELLIGENCE, FOOTBALL IQ,

CHARACTER and WORK ETHIC (and THEN physical talent).. along with the limited stupidass criteria that other browns coaches etc have used.

Hue and CO., this FO would never have drafted Gilbert, Taylor, Weeden, or Manziel. They were NOT a fit - to build a lockerroom

and team with.

NOW, dammit, look at the last draft. Every single one of their draft picks met every criteria you can come up with...legimately.

Yet we have several people who wail regardless, just because they haven't started winning yet.

The present is different than all the years previous - poor drafts have killed the Browns chances to be winners.

I've understood the wailing about the past for a while, but now i seems to be in every thread, and every time posters ignore

the difference in the last draft, and the excitement and fun a real TEAM is having.

They just haven't starting winning yet. No reason to raise negative hell on earth. Now, late in the season, I could see

being frustrated to an agonizing point. But this soon - seems like a bunch of baloney to me.

when the Browns had to make a LOT of changes quickly....how the hell are they able to do that without a trade down?

I don't see the negativism about previous trade downs. They wasted those picks - draft players who didn't love the game,

were not smart, and had serious character problems. Some just didn't care. Josh Gordon admitted he was immature

and didn't care much, didn't work much. The new difference is there, for the first time since '99. That's a fact.

@tour2ma said:

OK-I'm claiming Myles Garrett right now if he is there when we have a pick and instead trade out of the spot once again or take someone else. I'll take you up on the 4 year offer.

@hoorta said:

A fair point of view.

Also useful would be an expiration date... say the length of a rookie contract, 4 years... with a 5th year option for 1st rounders...

@gumby73 said:

Quit rearranging the outdoor furniture on The Titanic & Pay Jimmy Garopolo as our QB & start drafting the other missing bondo (Known as Playmakers)

For the record... I had your back. Although I had missed the bit about the Titanic in your original post...

@mudfly said:

I said I understood where you are coming from. What part of that disappoints you?

Different approach in the sense of trading back for a large draft volume of 14 this year. When in recent years have we added 14 draft picks in 1 draft? That's not different?

@mudfly said:

@flugel said:

Say what?.....Cmon Flugel.....""NOW that a different approach came along""??????.....as if this regime has created the brilliant idea to trade back???....and then you use Gilbert, Taylor, Weeden and Manziel as the examples of "why" this is a good idea????.....for real?

Do you realize they are ALL the results of trade backs???....exactly the great idea you're saying this FO came up with?.....

We gave up Kmack to get Gilbert....Gave up Julio Jones to get Phil Taylor.....etc etc....yet, you say Gilbert and Taylor are the reason it's a "good" idea to trade back?

Quality or quantity.....which is best?.....(trick question, be careful)(hint: it's quality)

Its ridiculous to assert that this FO is brilliant for doing EXACTLY what the previous ones did....including Farmer.....or that this is a "new approach".....pshaww

In fact, the war cry has been STOP passing on great talent to get lots of mediocre talent....yet, that is EXACTLY what happened this year.....again....

Ive stopped posting because Im tired of getting slammed for just pointing out the truth(in my eyes), because the truth "apparently" makes me a negative cry baby....yet, when I keep reading made up fiction, like above, I gotta call you out on it....

@gumby73 said:

Gumby, that may actually be an option to explore if the next draft class is a bummer at QB.

This last draft we traded back and added draft volumes to 2016, 2017 and 2018 understanding the previous Browns would see first round picks like Gilbert, Taylor, Manziel, Weeden, Richardson not amounting to anything. Longer term studies showed a guy like Braylon (drafted #3 overall the same year we could have traded back as far as the 20s for Aaron Rodgers) or even KWII could get seriously injured to the extent of missing considerable time and action early on in the career to injuries. We lost a pick trading up for Winslow in a year we could have added a pick trading back for Roethlisberger. At 1 point, this 1st round investment missed 2 of his first 3 years. Somehow today all this blame seems to be going to the brand new front office and coaching staff.

Now that a different approach came along thinking "what if we don't put all our marbles into just 1 draft pick? What if we looked at NE's model and traded back for bigger draft volumes every year?" Kind of like setting the gridiron chess table around the QB so either a Matt Cassell or Jimmy the Greek can work if Brady can't suit up? Another thing they did well was track guys they saw with potential on opposing teams like Wes Welker when he was a Dolphin or Chris Hogan as a Buffalo Bill or even Amendola. I'm hoping our front office does stuff like this too.

1 player ain't fixing this all by himself. I'm not a big Jeff Fisher fan but I get what he's doing at QB right now. If anyone watched the Rams, maybe Fisher isn't playing his 1st overall pick at QB because he'd like to see him survive until a second season the way he once did that for Air McNair in his rookie season. It's like they're paying a Hollywood stunt man to take the pounding and respond like a Faber College frat boy with "thank you sir may I have another!" There's actually QBs like McNair, Brady, Aikman, Young, Elway, Simms and others that either didn't play at all their rookie seasons or got clobbered/humbled/concussed for doing so.

@tiamat63 said:

Quit rearranging the outdoor furniture on The Titanic & Pay Jimmy Garopolo as our QB & start drafting the other missing bondo (Known as Playmakers)

@flugel said:

No need to be argumentative Tom. I'm as entitled to my opinions as you are to yours. LOL, fire everybody? Haslam and before that Lerner did a pretty good job of cleaning house every 2 years or so, sometimes even less. You really think poor little old me had anything to do with it? Maybe it would have turned out a little better if Jimmy hadn't been listening to street people about Manziel. Yeah- maybe you might remember I was the #1 no way in hell Johnny camp, since you want to bring up the past.

Regarding cleaning house this year? Oh really? This year? That was Ghoolie- you're seriously confused. BTW, I scrolled through my posts all the way back to August 1st- and there isn't ONE DAMN WORD about firing anyone, so drop it already. Last year, I felt Pettine had lost the team- no thanks to Manziel. We'll see if Mike resurfaces in the future after taking a year off collecting that nice unemployment check Jimmuh wrote him to get him out of town. Farmer's draft record speaks for itself.

Sorry if I'm not buying what the Browns are selling this year- until I see if it's worth buying. That's only about the 50th time I've said so. This year's model? I need some assurances it's not like last year's model. #51- sheeze. I'll know a little more Sunday after I take that 220 mile road trip up to the Factory of Sadness. Golly gee- 29% of America agrees with me- they're taking the Ravens in Yahoo's Survivor pool.

@hoorta said:

Who's kidding who? Some of those you accuse have been reading you since 1998. You've always wanted to fire the Front Offices and Head Coaches. You wanted everyone fired last year. This year you wanted Jimmy to clean house as early as week 2 of the preseason.

@flugel said:

Like hell. Where did I ever say I wanted everyone in this current incarnation FIRED? Again- you're reading something into that's flat out not there. I damn clearly said- they're going to have to prove they're worthy of trusting what they're doing. That's a country mile away from wanting the whole crew sent packing after they've only coached one game and had one draft. AND I don't have to like everything I've seen them do so far either.

@gumby73 said:

Are you tired of the draft, develop & Groom Bla,Bla bullshit of a Rookie QB? Jump on the Jimmy G train to Cleveland ...Might be his last 3 times to shine before he pulls a Tyrod Taylor. Cause Garopolo will not be at next season camp for 800k..Go Jacoby Bissette & Yes Brady you can play forever..Damn Bellycheck, we have got some picks just for you..Pay the Man!!..Somebody will 🥷

Can someone translate this for me?

I knew we were on the right track. When I heard accolades about Hue from around the league,

and where he's been a coach...

that added to my conviction. When I saw the difference, for the first time since '99, in the upbeatness,

the fun, and all in of the practices, including the fast pace and how the players were having fun out there...

it was completely different that the previous years boredom and molasses slow pace. And quiet.

This Browns situation is the right one, finally. Watch and see.

@texasag1969 said:

If you want to pretend the final verdict is in on the 2016 rookie QB crop, then be my guest. Both have a decent shot at looking very good this week as well. And I say that as a charter member of Dak-Backers and a Wentz skeptic who's just looking at half a glass of water.

@calfoxwc said:

100% in on taking the top qb next year.

Here's the thing Cal- and this goes for Zombo and Flugs too. Apparently some people are having extreme difficulty understanding my POV. (Mud has the same, but he's keeping a real low profile currently) I've seen way too many blowups in the FO and coaching staff. So we've torn it all again- did Sashi and Depo give you a written guarantee that it's going to be different this time? Sorry- my trust that they know what they're doing is going to have to be earned . No Front Office is perfect, but at this point they're not above criticism. End of discussion. As the Who sung- "Won't get Fooled Again".

The Jags are 0-8 when Bortles has thrown for 300 or more yards.

And, note that the titans got their super qb last year, and were in the top

draft spot.

It's a team game, you have to build your overall quality of players and depth, or getting

a bigtime qb doesn't help you do diddley.

and Bradshaw was nearly booed out of Pittsburg, by his own admission, back in the day.

was standing just out of bounds ?

I'd go back and look, but it's just too annoying. He could have slid.....

I'm hoping for a star qb draft pick next year. RG seems to buckle under pressure or something. He just doesn't see

the field quickly. Was hoping he'd have started to...

@calfoxwc said:

We're giving them a chance- haven't you noticed? I think Ag duly noted things we're not too happy about. 20\20 hindsight is making it look like R- G(lass) III was a Hue-mongous mistake too.

@hoorta said:

Looking at your last sentence - you haven't exactly been helping yourself either. My guess is you need to take care of the second thing before you can take care of the first thing.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=tightropetb&p=Analyze+This+the+first+thing+or+the+second+thing+youtube+video#id=1&vid=377aa17fe81b8b939aad50f2767dcaf4&action=click

@texasag1969 said:

Ag, the Sunshine train doesn't want to hear, much less even think about that kind of stuff. We'll give 'em some time though.

@calfoxwc said:

Either Dory just found Nemo? or Woody has got some Toy Stories to tell See ya in 2 years..

@flugel said:

If you still think that's whining, I can't help you. I like to have a lot of wine during games- it helps dull the pain of lousy football.