12. Special teams coach Chris Tabor expressed confidence in Williams: "Tramon catches the ball cleanly." He talked about Williams doing that in Green Bay, which was true. But it also was six years ago.

13. Tabor talked about rookie Corey Coleman as a punt returner. That's intriguing. Jackson tried to talk around the issue of the Browns having only 10 men on the field during the botched punt. He was protecting Tabor, who quickly said the Browns were a man short "and that's on me. That's coaching."

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index...rry_ta_80.html

Of course he was protecting Tabor! Everyone does! He's the Wernher von Braun of special teams coaches.

@gumby73 said:

Welcome to Browns football? I've been watching Browns football since the Jim Brown days. This isn't Browns football. 4th and 5, early in the game, on your own side of the field? Punt the thing. (Hue's fault for making the call)

The players didn't execute because we had a long snapper and a punter expected to block real football players. Long snappers and punters aren't real football players.

@gumby73 said:

Yeah, he wound up fumbling once too......because he actually tried to return it. But at least he caught the punts. (we were in dire straits at punt returner at that point)

@tour2ma said:

How would they know he's not dinged?

And were we really trying to fool anyone by sending the regular center in too...or the formation.

@orion said:

Jim Leonard..till he fumbled..refer to your line 1

IMO the long snapper shouldn't have even been sent out there. It should have been a REAL lineman. I can understand sending the punter out there so that the opponent thinks you're punting and sends in their return package. I understand that the play was going in the other direction...but we basically had two Andy Lee's out there to seal off the back side. - I'm sick of the stupidness.

As far as the stats go, we had a good punt returner in Benjamin...until he got hurt and we had to put in 'what's his name' (the old DB that Pettine loved so much - he was a pretty good DB though) to just catch the ball...because everyone else was fumbling the damned thing.

@orion said:

Because all the LS was being asked to do was cut off backside pursuit. It's a simple cutblock the LS probably executed in practice many times. Same is true of the Punter. Where else would you recommend they be stashed? Execution was poor, but the play was well conceived.

Of course it takes players to make plays, but it takes coaches to mold players into a unit.

@jrb12711 said:

You're whole argument is based on two bad plays, one that had little to nothing to do with him. The guy is a good coach and has been for a long time, that's why he's been with the staffs for so long. I honestly sometimes have no idea what you guys are thinking with these threads.

+1...

"fifth in kickoff return yards (1,041) and fifth in total kick return yards (1,366)."

Kinda depends on how many times people score against you. Probably you look at the seahawks or panthers for example they probably rank quite low in that regard.

@orion said:

"Since Tabor’s arrival in 2011, the Browns lead the NFL in punt return average (11.3), are tied for fifth in kickoff return average against (21.7) and are tied for sixth in punt return touchdowns (four). The Browns have won six AFC Special Teams Player of the Week awards from 2011-15.

Last season, Tabor guided a special teams unit that finished fourth in the NFL in punt return average (11.2), fifth in kickoff return yards (1,041) and fifth in total kick return yards (1,366). First-year kicker Travis Coons set an NFL record with 18 consecutive field goals to start his career. Punter Andy Lee set franchise best single-season marks in punt average (46.71) and net punt average (40.13). Punt returner Travis Benjamin finished third in the league in punt return average (11.6)."

You're whole argument is based on two bad plays, one that had little to nothing to do with him. The guy is a good coach and has been for a long time, that's why he's been with the staffs for so long. I honestly sometimes have no idea what you guys are thinking with these threads.

@gftchris said:

How 'bout Mangini as HC again?

He had good ST.

If the bottom of the roster wanted to be up for the game, the player(s) had to be good at ST. If you weren't good at ST then you watched the game in street clothes.

Unless you count Pettine trying 60 yard field goals with Devon Hester standing in the end zone. There's no ST coach that can defend that kind of stupidity.

I lost my faith in Pettine being a smart coach when he kicked that FG to Hester. Twice! (he got to see what would happen cos the Atlanta coach iced the kicker)

And I lost all my faith in Tabor when he put his hands players on the sidelines so the Pats could recover the kick up the middle. I mean, even a monkey could see THAT was stupid. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I thought our guys didn't realize that play was about to resume. But NOO. We did that on purpose.

On the 'somewhat' fake punt he puts the long snapper next to the punter to block. WHY? Why wouldn't you put a real lineman over there? So they would think we were really gonna punt? To me it's the players on ST that make stats look good.

@tour2ma said:

Well now, that was insightful.

@stillmotion said:

umm, yes...Hue is the play caller...so Hue called the 4th down play. But Tabor designed the play. At least that's my argument. Based on the cockeyed onside kick coverage from the Patriots game a few years ago it certainly seems like his handiwork.

Apparently NOBODY thinks that Tabor is the problem...cos every new regime keeps him. The freakin' water boy gets booted but not Tabor. He's a God.

@opal312 said:

There must be something in the water in the complex at Berea? As soon as they enter the building they become brain dead. Belicheck left Berea and has 15 division titles and FOUR rings. I suggest they change the water filtration system and have Minnehaha Spring Water delivered for added measure.

How else do you explain Quinn-Weeden-Manziel And now Kessler! Who the hell is Cody Kessler? Who the hell was Justin Gilbert? The other 31 teams had never heard of these guys because Pettine and Jackson kept it "Top Secret" In fact, Gilbert isn't on the team anymore but no one has even noticed! The only reason we still remember Johnny Gin Joint is he left his wig and sunglasses in his locker next to his high heels.

The new directive for Haslam & his boys will be scouting another college QB. I wish they had professionals evaluating talent because that's where they lack the most. Evaluating talent is non existent at Berea when it comes to top 10 draft picks. They'd have better success picking names out of a hat. At least we would have a 50-50 chance.

No, it's not the water, or the coaches or even the moneyball sushi du jour.

It's Haslam

@opal312 said:

It was Farmer who didn't do his job regarding Gilbert and Manziel. It was Jimmy's fault for hiring farmer.

I think the call was Hue's call, not Tabor's. Tabor isn't the problem.

How else do you explain Quinn-Weeden-Manziel And now Kessler! Who the hell is Cody Kessler? Who the hell was Justin Gilbert? The other 31 teams had never heard of these guys because Pettine and Jackson kept it "Top Secret" In fact, Gilbert isn't on the team anymore but no one has even noticed! The only reason we still remember Johnny Gin Joint is he left his wig and sunglasses in his locker next to his high heels.

The new directive for Haslam & his boys will be scouting another college QB. I wish they had professionals evaluating talent because that's where they lack the most. Evaluating talent is non existent at Berea when it comes to top 10 draft picks. They'd have better success picking names out of a hat. At least we would have a 50-50 chance.

No, it's not the water, or the coaches or even the moneyball sushi du jour.

It's Haslam