@mudfly said:

lol... well... everything is relative....

Not sure I have watched a game this year where teams have not exhibited "bad tackling" at some point. Closest to perfection may have been the Vikes. But the root cause of the bad always seems to be the same... getting in position to make the tackle... and that is something we seem to be doing with greater frequency in this fledgling season. I think this is due to the speed factor. Add in the aggression and seeing more gang tackling as a result.

Where we still seem to be delinquent is big hits or "decleaters" to borrow an old Madden-ism. For the first time I was watching the Fins' game broadcast this AM and off the bat Kirksey shot a gap on a sweep left and laid one on their RB.

Seeing a few things differently in the above game than I saw live. More thoughts on this later...

@hoorta said:

Nope...it wont....but being open and honest about your feelings is healthy.....let it out!.....

@texasag1969 said:

Well in the category of "Believe It Or Not", after 4 weeks there are 5 teams who have given up more than the Browns @ 28.8/game. New Orleans (32.5), Tampon Bay (32), Colts (31.2), Atlanta (31) and Ta da! Caroline's Panthers (29.5)

If I were a Caroline fan I'd be wondering if the Broncos just broke my team for good.

Great!....so we arent last..YAY! ...of course, what another team does doesnt really make our team better.....28.8 is 28.8 and when you're only scoring 18.....thats a big difference...none the less, I think the O will score a bit more as we go....esp if Hue gets Crow more touches......#1 back(hottest) in the league should be getting more than 15 carries....just saying

@orion said:

Yup, we were going to take a step backwards (at least for a while) this year compared to last...but it shouldn't be hard to imagine. It would've been HIGHLY surprising if this year's D was better than last year's right out of the box.

Yeah...I was just blabbering .....after the off season, I was 100% certain we stepped back and the D would be awful....no surprise to me actually....

We were terrible and we set the course to "step back" and grow from there. Got it and get it.

BUT...of course...... If you "actually" say we're terrible, then you are a dick........

@tour2ma said:

We look faster and more aggressive on D to my eye. And the potential for growth is there.

And I have to applaud Horton adapting to the talent on hand. The 4-3 looks "right".

But the D has set up the Offense by producing turnovers

Id agree with this....the D does "look" better in a few aspects.....still some horrendous tackling and ugliness(for sure), but they look better, while still being terrible....

And I too applaud the 4-3 sets...probably the reason for much of the improvement and the best way to utilize our talent pool.....it's about time too.....how long have we screamed for that?.....

AND the D provided a score!....Cahoun Booty(sic) got 6.....which replaces one of Dansbys.....so thats a positive too....

@stinkhole said:

No one deserves s***.

And cool. We're in fact not doing the same soooo you're wasting your time. Take a lap. Then a seat.

@tour2ma said:

I knew I wasn't alone!

@the-gipper said:

Yes, and there were around three bad calls in the Redskins games. MHO is the PIs were bogus- one was an uncatchable ball out of bounds. Hue didn't like the fumble call on Duke either. The ref is still looking at the pile, with Johnson holding up the ball behind her.

@wargograw said:

Or five.

@wargograw said:

Your exaggeration and extrapolation aside... I agree. We look faster and more aggressive on D to my eye. And the potential for growth is there.

And I have to applaud Horton adapting to the talent on hand. The 4-3 looks "right".

@cainedesoulis said:

Statistically we are a worse defense this year but you know my eyes are broken so here the stats <--- original argument

2015 Y/pg:379.2 Rushing Y/pg:128.4 Passing Y/pg:250.8 Points/pg:27.0

2016 Y/pg:378 Rushing Y/pg:118.25 Passing Y/pg:259.75 Points/pg:28.8

we give up 1.2 less yards and 1.8 more points

we have gained 1485 yards and our opponents have gained 1512 meaning we are playing right there with them Defense is our biggest problem. <--- new argument

So when the stats don't support your original argument, just pretend they do and then change your argument?

@hoorta said:

I suppose complaining won't change the fact that we're still not very good. Young sure. D couldn't stop em after those turnovers.

But the D has set up the Offense by producing turnovers

@stinkhole said:

Actually the Einstein adage is that insanity is where YOU do the same thing over and over yet expect different results.

The problem is the "You". This team has had so many different "Yous"....and honestly, they have not done things the same way over and over. Every group does things a different way. Yet every one of those different ways still leads to losing.

@texasag1969 said:

I hope to see progress as opposed to some here who think it is cute to shit on a team they supposedly like, Johnny Refugee.

@wargograw said:

Expectations on new regimes in Cleveland are so utterly insane.

No they're not. After going through more than a decade and a half of losing, you deserve a winner, and you deserve one now.

You've heard the old adage before...insanity is when each new regime does the same as the previous one and expects different results.

@browns52 said:

I don't give a shit what you say.....sometimes a bad call can win or lose a game.

Sure.....it would be nice if the Browns could pound teams 30-0 and not have a bad ref's call make a difference.....but here is a clue: 75% of NFL games are very close affairs....and a bad call CAN AND DOES often make a difference in these games. Teams are fairly evenly matched often.....so little things DO count: Turnovers, obviously (not really a "little" thing), missed kicks (see Scott Norwood), bad calls (see the Houston Oiler/Steelers playoff game that caused the institution of instant replay), dropped passes (the Browns win a playoff game vs. Shitsburgh if Dennis Northcutt holds on to a catch).

So, yea, little things make a big difference.

http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2015/01/top-10_worst_referee_calls_in.html

@mudfly said:

Yup, we were going to take a step backwards (at least for a while) this year compared to last...but it shouldn't be hard to imagine. We lost both safties. We lost Desmond Bryant, our best DLineman, We have a new system and a lot of young players that have to play. It would've been HIGHLY surprising if this year's D was better than last year's right out of the box.

@the-gipper said:

Would not pay them, have cap space every year

@browns52 said:

good teams find ways to win regardless of the refs...that is the poorest excuse of what you said...the missed kicks, at first i blamed the kicker but after hearing he hardly had no practice at all, i can't blame him...just bad luck the starting kicker got hurt...but it looks like parkey got it right now...his kicks against the skins were right down the middle instead of wide left..can't blame him....i do blame the coach on the fb fumble yesterday, he should not have been allowed to even touch the ball, just block for crow or duke. they probably punch it in. our fb is not moose johnston by any means...bad bad play call their...

Who told you we're a good team? Why are you so delusional? Give it a year.

@browns52 said:

@browns52 said:

they all have won games...we are the only fucking team that is winless...fuck the stats...its the wins that count not the stats....

All I do is Bitch/Bitch/Bitch no matter what? Bitchin'52-their is offensive improvement all over the field. Hue does not fumble, M.Johnson did. Just like Duke did. Put it on the player not coach's play calling, calling your number. Do your Job..we will pay you pretty well..If your counting only wins right now, your not being a sensible browns fan. Your just finding something to bitch about..Just like week 1 till now, STFU Bitchin'52..13 more weeks to go. Get Off our Lawn!!

@the-gipper said:

good teams find ways to win regardless of the refs...that is the poorest excuse of what you said...the missed kicks, at first i blamed the kicker but after hearing he hardly had no practice at all, i can't blame him...just bad luck the starting kicker got hurt...but it looks like parkey got it right now...his kicks against the skins were right down the middle instead of wide left..can't blame him....i do blame the coach on the fb fumble yesterday, he should not have been allowed to even touch the ball, just block for crow or duke. they probably punch it in. our fb is not moose johnston by any means...bad bad play call their...

@browns52 said:

Sure....but it was also predicted that the Browns were the shit of all shit of all time.....but that is not the case.

In 3 of their 4 games they have had leads in the 4th quarter....and it is just fucked up shit that kept them from winning.

Bullshit referee calls, missed kicks, and fumbles.

Not endemic destructiveness as predicted......correctable matters.

Sorry....but now Goodell and the league should be getting cauliflower ear from Jimmy chewing on them. Goodell aught to be calling Evander Holyfield on how to deal with a good ear chewing.

@texasag1969 said:

they all have won games...we are the only fucking team that is winless...fuck the stats...its the wins that count not the stats....

@mudfly said:

there is no improvement...this coach and oc are making the same stupid playcalling mistakes that we have seen from all the previous coaches..giving the ball in the red zone to a fullback who never carried the ball at all this yr was one of the most dumb decisions i have seen...turned the whole game around..you can have all the talent in the world but if you make stupid dumb coaching decisions, it does not matter...fucking fake punt with no punter in the game vs the eagles...christ almighty..same shit...we suck, we are the only team with no wins...where the fuck is the improvement...

@baconhound said:

Both of them were free agents with the option to leave...and that is what they did. Its not like they were cut, they just got much huger financial offers that the Browns would not/could not match.....(or even if they did, these guys chose to go elsewhere).

@mudfly said:

Well in the category of "Believe It Or Not", after 4 weeks there are 5 teams who have given up more than the Browns @ 28.8/game. New Orleans (32.5), Tampon Bay (32), Colts (31.2), Atlanta (31) and Ta da! Caroline's Panthers (29.5)

If I were a Caroline fan I'd be wondering if the Broncos just broke my team for good.