@tour2ma said:

I haven't looked at film outside of Browns games so I will certainly defer to you on that. I hoped he may be able to generate more explosion out of OT but it sounds like a long shot. I do know Hue is thinking about trying him at OT. The season is shot so may as well give him that one last shot before you show him the door.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/11/hue_jackson_says_if_cam_erving.html

@osiris said:

Agree with much of your full post... less so in its closing paragraph.

While it's true Cam is tall for a Center, regardless of where you play on the OL "explosion" out of a stance is a requirement of the position and Cam does not have it. Wherever you put him on the line the D will adjust and expose him. This is what I said during his stint at OG last season. And when I reviewed his limited tape at Center at LSU, it was clear that he had issues whenever a DL covered him. This is why I laughed when folks said he'd be fine once moved to Center, his "natural" position. And it is not as if there have not been successful, tall interior OL in the league.

As for OT... no, just no. He does not have the feet for PassPro. That was clear on his LSU tape... on a lot more tape than had him at Center. His only chance is in the "phone booth" and even in there his reaction to stunts, any quick rush is woeful. Put him on the edge and as a DC I overpower him with big DEs on early downs and run around him in passing situations. He simply cannot be hidden.

Might he improve? Sure... but even vs. other OL prospects on our roster, I do not like his odds.

Talent was also a problem last year. We know this now because we got rid of a coaching staff that had maybe less than 50 years combined experience with a coaching staff that has over 120 years of combined experience, and the team still sucks. So talent is a problem this year, too.

We all have to accept that changing the coaching staff was only part of the solution. We now need to improve the team's talent. That's going to take multiple drafts. It's going to take time to develop that talent, and sometimes that takes years. Look at Danny Shelton. Last year people were calling him a bust. Now he's one of the top DT in the league.

Getting rid of the coaching staff or the FO will just set us back because new guys come in and get rid of anybody they don't like. We've been doing that in Cleveland since 1999 and that is why we rarely win.

Hue Jackson is the right man for this job because despite being 0-9, he still comes in Monday morning with a positive and determined attitude.

As for Cam Erving, we need to try him out at right tackle before he's declared a bust. The guy is too tall for center. Look at how O-lines line up. The center is right up on the line of scrimmage obviously, and other linemen are about a foot back from it. Tall guys like Erving need that space to get their momentum going for run blocking and they need the time it gives them to react when pass blocking. Erving doesn't get that at center. And oh yeah, he played more games at tackle in college than center. The guy is a tackle, not a center, folks.

@stillmotion said:

"Sushi With Sashi and Chef Cam!" Yeah, has a nice TV program ring to it. God please make this happen,

@stillmotion said:

I think part of the reason our O falls off in the second half is that we just don't have the talent to keep it up - in the first half, we can maybe do all kinds of surprise things that catch a team off guard, but that runs out and teams force us to play standard stuff, and we struggle.

@wargograw said:

Bro Mud isn't the problem. The inconsistency of the front office is.......

It's good to remain optimistic, but Hue isn't some kind of genius, he's been dealt a rough deck and he's struggling with not much talent.....

As far as Cam Erving goes, maybe he should quit football and become a Chef?

@wargograw said:

Well....they certainly didnt listen to me last year.....or this year......

@mudfly said:

I just wish you could acknowledge that constantly complaining about the staff only aids in their firing. So, as someone against the firing, maybe you could back it up a little bit. I'm sure you'll say "nobody listens to little old me." But I just believe these things spread. Stuff you read on a message board gets talked about around the water cooler. Then in a casual conversation with the boss. Then in the boxes at the stadium. Then it eventually reaches Jimmy. Opinions trickle up all the time and we know how fragile Jimmy is.

How dare you, sir. I demand satisfaction. Pistols at dawn!

@wargograw said:

This is my last comment(cause Ive said it a billion times)...and then Im out...

1) I did not defend Pettine, I fought against another reboot. Had plenty of issues with both Pettine and Farmer, but argued endlessly that THEY were not the reason the team sucked and that the team would suck even with a new coach. Again....Im not a Pettine fan, Im a reboot hater.....(and I was right, the team isnt any better)

Note: you mentioned in one of your previous comments that you thought Jackson would have won 4 more games with the same team. Does that mean you advocate tearing a 7-9 team down to dust? Cause that would be crazy...right?....who does that?

2) I have NEVER unloaded on Hue. EVER. And, infact, have said a number of times(on this board) that he should NOT be fired(for the same reasons Pettine shouldnt have been fired) and he should have time...but, that does not mean I think he's perfect or a savior either....so, yeah, when I see questionable shit I will say it.....just like I did with Farmer and Pettine many many times....but having a negative critique is not unloading on Hue......I have no issue with Hue, other than him being crowned some type of genius and savior, when he looks more like an average rookie head coach.....actually kind of feel sorry for him....think Shashi is shafting him a bit.....just my opinon

3) And finally.....for like the 3rd time.... In this thread, I went after the FO....FO ....FO......yet you insist I am engaging in some type of Pettine thing. Which makes no sense, considering Im talking about FO.....Ive not mentioned Pettine in one post, but you have thrown him in my face in your last 7 posts.....and you were the one telling me to "get over it".....

How about you do the same....?....K?

it's all spelled out for you....again.....please try to understand this time....and if you still insist on attaching your own meaning of what Im thinking and completely discount what Im telling you Im thinking....then there is no help ......your on your own

@tour2ma said:

Nah, I have wanted to say something forever because excessive ellipse users bug the hell out of me and I saw the opening. He apologized (or whatever word you want to use) for Pettine but unloads on Hue. Simple as that. I didn't/won't make a critical evaluation of either in their first year.

@wargograw said:

Still you.

I like how you're using the opinion of others here as validation, yet when most of the board hated Pettine you spent hours and hours trying to change hearts. Pretty much made my point exactly. No benefit of the doubt for Hue from you.

The real prime contender for a firing here is whoever.....taught......you.....punctuation.

I like how you're using the opinion of others here as validation, yet when most of the board hated Pettine you spent hours and hours trying to change hearts. Pretty much made my point exactly. No benefit of the doubt for Hue from you.

The real prime contender for a firing here is whoever.....taught......you.....punctuation.

And now........Wargo has spent two whole pages bitching about it.....as if my one post ruined the whoie board or something....

And that ONE comment about the FO has now evolved to a rant about how Im not treating Hue right?

Yer an idiot...

And,.....in the end....what Im saying now(about this team and the FO) WILL prove to be true.......

So, go ahead Wargo....rant a few more pages about my terrible posts.....but NOTE that the board is riddled with threads about firing Hue, and 0-16, and this team quitting AND IM NOT ON ANY OF THEM......so before you cast stones at me as some kind of negative jerk and the only guy who cant see the great things that are happening....take a look around,,,,and see who IS on all those threads and who isnt...

and re-read this thread to determine who the real whiny bitch is....

I liked Farmer and I wanted to keep Pettine. We could hire Mickey Mouse and I would want to see

Him get a minimum of three years.

Last year's team had a ton more talent than this one, and Pettine scratched out three wins. I do believe that with last year's talent and schedule, Hue would have notched at least twice that.

Apologetics, "challenges," whatever verbiage you want to use: you guys defended Pettine. My point is Mud makes no attempt at the same for Hue. You do. You guys are handling this differently.

@wargograw said:

If that's a joke, I don't get it.

This ought to help...

@wargograw said:

... sarcastic ahole comments..

@tour2ma said:

DON'T you DARE call Mud sarcastic...

Better?

@wargograw said:

You loved everything associated with Pettine. Your bitterness over his firing oozes into every post.

Now a serious post...

Bullfuck!

Mud, I and a couple others pointed out the lack of talent on the team in general and the Defense in particular. We felt this was at least a significant, if not the major, reason for the team's lack of success... especially in 2015.

No one ever apologized for Pettine. We simply challenged the majority, which I'd forgotten included you, that Coaching was THE problem. I forgot forgot you were a Farmer guy, that's how much I;ve clung to Pet, but in typing this I suddenly did remember that you were a Manzielot... one of the "good ones".

So it makes sense that you would end up on the other side of our argument since your boy's destructive presence was a burden for any HC, let alone a first timer...

... but that's no reason for you to make shit up...

@wargograw said:

You can say that all you want, doesn't make it true. You defended the vast majority of questionable Pettine moves to the hilt. With this regime it's nothing but whining about absolutely everything with a ton of being a smartass sprinkled in.

Mud makes more sense than you child. He wants to see good football played like most Browns fans. You seem more like another loser from taxas

@texasag1969 said:

I wasn't sure about that AG- thanks for clearing it up.

@wargograw said:

Riiiiight. You constantly point out how neither side of the ball has improved (even though re: offense, pretty much no one agrees with you). You said last week we quit in the second half. You said our halftime adjustments sucked. If I wanted to spend some time, I could probably find a million more examples. So no, I'm not mixed up.

Ha no one agrees with Mud? From a points scored\game standpoint- (29th NFL) I can sure say we've seen no improvement. Is the talent better? Maybe- but that talent hasn't translated into wins,or points. And the defense is flat out terrible. Maybe if we had a defense on the order of the '85 Bears, we might have eked out a few wins by now. Getting beat by an average of 11 per game.

Dreams...... I get to go to the Super Bowl as a season ticket holder

Fear..... I have spent 100's of thousands of dollars for the worst run sport franchise EVER!!!!!

@mudfly said:

Riiiiight. You constantly point out how neither side of the ball has improved (even though re: offense, pretty much no one agrees with you). You said last week we quit in the second half. You said our halftime adjustments sucked. If I wanted to spend some time, I could probably find a million more examples. So no, I'm not mixed up.