@tour2ma said:

You replied as if I was defending Cam. When have I ever done that?

I simply speculated on the only reason that could explain his continued presence on the field.

Didn't mean it that way at all Tour. No logical reason for Cam to be starting. Shon Coleman another great analytics pick, huh?

@tour2ma said:

Ive had a hard time trying to fathom some of those reasons myself.....with a number of players......

Some start and I cant figure why.....some sit and I cant figure why......some were cut and some were retained and I cant figure why....

Which leaves me with nothing to question except talent evaluation.......

I simply speculated on the only reason that could explain his continued presence on the field.

@tour2ma said:

Tour- I don't much care how great you look in practice, live game tape is way more instructive. And if we notice some of Cam's (as Mud would say) TURRIBLE screw ups, the coaches sure as hell have to have seen it. You can't "coach up" instincts. Salary and draft position shouldn't make a lick of difference to this FO & coaching staff, considering all the high priced former players like Kruger we sent packing. Really at this point do you hold any hope Cam will improve to the point he's 1\2 decent? You take a center in the first round he had better be great- like Alex Mack. This is looking more and more like another major Ray Farmer screw up.

With the exception of RG and Davis, it appears that UFAs were simply not part of the plan and I'm fine with that. But we really do not know who else was contacted to gauge their interest... do we?

I think we'd agree that the more desirable the UFA, the less interested they were in us. Hell, we even spent a late-third rounder to try to get the inside track with one of 2017's big names... even if takes the tag to do it... and it well may.

I honestly don't expect much more UFA activity this coming year. Some resigns... a couple middling vets... a tag... that's about it. The focus will continue to be building a core thru the draft and sift process.

As for Center... all I can say is Cam must be one practice-nailing MoFo to still be starting at this stage... at least vs. the alternatives we have. But he with his price tag had to be given every chance to make it.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Nope......Ive been here 46 years now

And I will stay till they get it right......

And, when they fuck up over and over.....Ill say it.....

Over and over.....

@mudfly said:

We didnt even try dude.....and it didnt have to be a big $$ name FA.....just some old dog who's done it before....Weisnewski and several others were available LATE into FA signing period....and we talked to no one....

A lot of people liked a lot of our new players....but they're all pretty silent right about now.....

And....in case you've forgotten, we sucked before Bito went down......(I think we were on QB #5 by the time that happened)....

Excuse #132,675.......injuries

Soooo....see ya?

@londonbrown said:

We didnt even try dude.....and it didnt have to be a big $$ name FA.....just some old dog who's done it before....Weisnewski and several others were available LATE into FA signing period....and we talked to no one....

A lot of people liked a lot of our new players....but they're all pretty silent right about now.....

And....in case you've forgotten, we sucked before Bito went down......(I think we were on QB #5 by the time that happened)....

Excuse #132,675.......injuries

@mudfly said:

But we got 4 new shiny WRs who have caught how many passes between them this year? Oh right, just a couple or so less than The Duke.

So, in addition to needing to add depth(say 2 players?).....we now needed to replace 2 quality starters AND add depth.....

So....what did we do?......

Gave the C job to a guy who got owned all last season(he wasn't just bad, he was TERRIBLE)......and we backed him up with a UDFA who hasnt played ball since 2012 and another UDFA who wasn't even good enough to hang on the practice squad.....

In other words.....we did absolutely nothing the address starting or back up C....

And to replace Schwartz?.....ahhh, we DID draft someone....HOORAY!!!!.......and we had a UDFA back up who, probably, would be ok in a pinch.......only problem is that the guy we drafted isnt good enough or healthy enough to help this team.....

So.....the OL problem was very visible for 2 years....FO saw it and did nothing.......and, now, they damn near killed a few QB's, including their high dollar FA(RG).......who was worth a big contract AND handing the starting job to......but not worth protecting(this season).....

Just 2 good FA's on the OL and this team would have won some games.....

@tour2ma said:

Well,,,,not to argue.....but we did not have one in camp or to start the season, which is my point(lots of cuts w/o answers/thoughts to who replaces them).......it wasnt until the second week of the regular season that the Browns brought in Reiter, who played one game.....so, maybe he's decent, maybe's he's not....but it takes more than a game to make that call and he wasnt here until things were going south....

In the mean time, all through camp, FA and the preseason, we brought in nobody of merit....(2 udfa's - one who hasnt made a team in the 4 years he's been trying - Gerhart and Mathews)......and THAT was a bad plan......and Reiter was the bandaid applied after it was obvious how bad they had mis judged Cam's talent......ala Collins.....you know I was promoting Weisnewski(or someone similar) going back 2 years now.....and very strongly during FA(where we did nothing.....at......all).....

As for the picks?......how about trying to shore up some of the bleeding by not picking 5 WR's??....or signing a FA player or 2 to replace the 12 that walked....?

I understand we can only draft so many quality players per year.....and that is the reason you dont wipe out your whole team, when you can only replenish 1/4 of it per year.......there is no obvious benefit to doing this and many many reasons why you shouldnt....

Yep.....I liked Scooby and the way he plays....thought it was a good stab in the 7th and probably one of the few picks that I actually like.......and I think he could have excelled on our ST, which need someone like him.....and I thought he looked better, preseason, than Schobert did.....yet he got cut and Schobert was rewarded with the starting job......so, go figure....

Anyhow....Im locked in.....saw it in camp(said it too).....saw it in preseason(said it too)......saw it early season(said it too)......and all the while I was told I was wrong, these rookies were our best in years, the team would show steady improvement, the rookies would should improvement, by game 3 we'd be gelling, by game 8 we'd be gelling, by the second half we'd be getting better each week, yada yada yada......and, you know what?......the team is EXACTLY as bad as I said in week one of preseason.....and it has only gotten worse.....and NO rookies have differentiated themselves or shown measurable(quality) growth, save....maybe.....Ogbah....

So....many....bad.....choices....and ......non moves.....in one year......cant take it and very surprised you dont see it or refuse to accept it......cmon Tour....you, of all people, dont see whats happening(or NOT happening?).....

Am I crazy???....cause I believe we see such different things here....

@mudfly said:

But to commit to Erving....after watching him last year?.....and not have a back up or a vet to step in?.....turble

Did the same thing with OLBS......cut 3 out of 4 vets....then drafted 1 in the 4th.......and waited 8 weeks into the season, then said....HEY! We need an OLB......

We had a promising sub for Cam when he went down... then the sub went down.

More like "Hey! Look whose getting shopped around!"

As for the picks... unfortunately we did not have 4 more in the first two rounds. But we did scoop up Scooby. Wasn't he one of your guys?

@bob806 said:

Could it possibly be the weak link at center is causing all the other breakdowns of the line?

Yes, it could.

@richiswhere said:

Hmm...something never thought about before. Could it really be just that simple?

@texasag1969 said:

So our "makeover" has thus far produced a team that can't run, can't stop the run, can't pass, can't stop the pass and created a permanent dogpile behind our LOS that has sent QB's to the bench so many times I have now lost count.

But we have a long term plan.

OK-so how is step one of that plan working out so far? Stands full of foes and empty seats, few veterans to help the transition and piles of cash the owner has saved up for "A NEW CAR!!-COME ON DOWN JIMMY HASLAM!" (in my best game show announcer voice).

Well at least my "plan" has won me the weekly NFL fantasy league I'm in three times this season so far. I drafted better than the Browns.

But we have a long term plan.

OK-so how is step one of that plan working out so far? Stands full of foes and empty seats, few veterans to help the transition and piles of cash the owner has saved up for "A NEW CAR!!-COME ON DOWN JIMMY HASLAM!" (in my best game show announcer voice).

Well at least my "plan" has won me the weekly NFL fantasy league I'm in three times this season so far. I drafted better than the Browns.

@canton-dawg said:

Those were some Braylonesque drops by our first round WR.

I thought of him too...go figure

@bob806 said:

Obby isn't out of position by a long stretch. Put him in a 2pt on the strong side then ask him to drop, cover, and push the pocket from that role. Then you'll see what 'out of position' is.

@tiamat63 said:

That was my recollection as well. Unless Horton's plan is to really transition to a base 4-3 i don't know why you take two huge college DE's that are gonna struggle more than other 4-3 DE"s to make the transition to OLB'er. I mean Nassib is 6'7 and although i saw some decent things out of him in the beginning of the year from the standup....he should be a zone dropping DE nothing more. Same with Og.

@mudfly said:

Ha!....the running game was abandoned like 5 weeks ago....where ya been?

@bob806 said:

I think og was pure DE, but i could be wrong. All of the tape i saw of him he came up from the dirt, always lined up wide. In any case yeah he doesn't belong at LB'er. I agree that the ILB'ers are kind of a pleasant surprise this year. Demario looks like he tracks the ball carrier better than any LB'er we've had for years. I would love to run the 4-3 with him, kirksey, schobert and Collins rotating in.

@mudfly said:

Ha!....the running game was abandoned like 5 weeks ago....where ya been?

I mean it was a windy day, and it wasn't like our passing game was doing anything...other than getting our QB's killed.