@tour2ma said:

Give us time. That lust may not be done yet.

@tour2ma said:

Nah... we're a different kind of suck... at least from the Lions as I remember it...

Remember how they were a playmaking WR away from contention like three years running? At least that's what Millen thought. Took like three WRs with very high picks in three consecutive drafts until they hit on Megatron.

Whereas our FO traded down and then exhausted their WR lust in one draft!.

Vive la difference!

Not that much different Tour. Millen belongs in the draft Hall of Shame, but Farmer isn't far behind. I'm on my tablet, so I'm not going to look up which Bozo drafted Joey Harrington.

Remember how they were a playmaking WR away from contention like three years running? At least that's what Millen thought. Took like three WRs with very high picks in three consecutive drafts until they hit on Megatron.

Whereas our FO traded down and then exhausted their WR lust in one draft!.

Vive la difference!

@elkdawg said:

In essence we are the '76 Bucs & the 2008 Lions. Eerily similar to what I read here almost every week.

"The Lions had plenty of chances to win at least one game during the 2008 NFL season. Although they suffered their fair share of blowouts throughout the year, they also lost four games by a touchdown or less. So they very easily could have finished 1-15, 2-14, or even 3-13. But they didn't. They finished 0-16, and their season was summed up perfectly by their radio play-by-play announcer Dan Miller after they lost their 16th game of the season to the Green Bay Packers. "For 16 weeks, starting in Atlanta back in September, they took the field thinking this was gonna be their day," he said. "Sixteen times they were wrong...They are the worst team in league history."

@the-cysko-kid said:

The hilarious thing about the Browns is for a chunk of time there we had a pretty decent O-line and still managed to be appallingly mediocre to stunningly bad. No matter what asset we have we're missing the complimentary piece. We have no line, or no quarterback, or no receivers, or no defense. We've not had a running game to speak of since the Browns came into existence. It's hilarious, It's impossible to be as bad as the Browns have been and yet, here we are. Defying all the odds.

In essence you're saying we suck?

@tour2ma said:

I dont think Jimmah is cheap either.....in fact....I think he'd spend every penny if he knew we'd win....heck, he had the highest paid, yet worst, defense in the league.....just a year ago.....

And....Im thinking Collins could easily be a mercenary.....in fact, dude doesnt even like football.....says he's not a fan and never has been.....just happens to be a good player....

So, Im thinking he's a very unique character....one who doesnt care that much about wins, etc....but still always plays to win....

I think we can sign him.....cause even when he loses, he still sleeps well......

@hoorta said:

Two reasons why not Jimmy G. Mallett and Cassell. How did those two work out when they went to other teams? Belichick isn't going to trade his QBOTF with a soon to be 40 year old Tom Brady manning the position. Trade Jimmy and keep Jacoby Brissett? Bill's smart enough to know Tom isn't going to be playing forever. Of course, if he can sucker some team into giving up a first round pick, I'm sure he'll listen.

The only reason we got Collins from the Pats is they didn't want to (or couldn't) come up with enough cash to keep him happy. The Browns have more cap room (by far) than any other team in the NFL. Bill has rarely let someone go who went on to excel with another team.

If you know anything at all about relative value to a team, left tackle (that's Joe) ranks only behind QB and pass rusher. It's why left tackles get drafted in the first round every year like clockwork. Teams don't like seeing their franchise quarterbacks getting killed. He can still probably play at his usual pro bowl level for a couple more years. If we're taking a qb either by trade or draft- a great blindside protector (like Thomas) is mandatory.

Last bit earned you a "+1".

Collins isn't there because he was not "doing his job" and analytics said his production could be replaced. Likely not by one player, but his production could be replaced (think Moneyball scene where Billy is meeting with his scouts and trying to get them to "think right").

As for Garoppolo... Bill B. would trade his son for the right price. Bill has created the market for his past back-ups. I think he's done it again.. in no small part with an assist from Goodell. Also bear in mind that 2017 is the last year of Jimmy's rookie deal... and Tom Terrific will play forever...

@flyingfooldoug said:

I really like the part about scouts that can evaluate talent.

lol... yeah, that'd help.

Really Sashi ought to just read this board. Someone here is right about every player. Of course that "someone" tends to vary from player to player. But the history is here to apply analytics and determine posters' "batting averages"...

Could pay us by flying us on Jimmah's jet to join him in his owner's box... helluvalot cheaper than his scout payroll... and maybe with better results.

@stillmotion said:

maybe start with all the cap room jimmy has.....

i'm worried about resigning pryor and collins next year. I'm willing to bet they both want the maximum, especially since pryors agent is rosenhaus. Is pryor really worth Julio Jones type money?

Best case scenario is that we draft some studs, sign some free agents, and don't overpay for some of the people that we have. T Pryor doesn't deserve 50 or 60 million dollars in a multi year deal.....

Jimmy's being a cheapass.

First, I don't buy the "cheap-ass" bit... when the time comes, Jimmah will open his wallet for the team he'll put on the field. You just have to look at what he's paying players and coaches to no longer be here to see that... not to mention the stadium improvements he's funded.

On the other hand I share your resign concerns... especially with Collins. Unless he's a total mercenary at heart, then I think he'll take less to go to a contender. It's just hard for me to see a former Patriot being satisfied to be part of a multi-year rebuild. On the other hand he may be one of those whose ego would embrace being a centerpiece of a rebuild.

Pryor on the other hand... there are ways to pay potential to stick around. He's 17th in YPG, so he's on the cusp of joining the best in the game. In 2018 the 17th highest paid WR will pull down ~$8mm. A base in that area as the foundation of an incentive laden deal in its first years combined with back-end, mutual-option years, just might get it done. Including some extra-healthy guaranteed $$$ and injury insurance would also help. Then a $40mm-ish deal has $60mm potential if he turns out to be worth "it".

But if all else fails the WSH route with Cousins is there... tag him. It overpays TP for another one-year look, but identifying his value is our reward.

Finally... least we end on an agreeable high note... once you open the wallet for FAs, who are almost always "overpaid", then those with whom you bargained hard tend to say, "Hey! Where was mine?"

@jiggins7919 said:

i'd gladly trade myles garrett for jimmy g, call me crazy but that's a QB you can build around.

I don't know...I really just don't. We need so much.

@texasag1969 said:

Not to mention this newfangled machine.

@miktoxic said:

Not to mention this newfangled machine.

@miktoxic said:

and QB. and WR. and RB. and TE. and RT. and RG. and LG. and LT. and K. and P. and DL. and DL. and MLB. and OLB. and..............scouts that can evaluate talent. and GMs who aren't blind and dumb. and HCs that can find a way to win. and................

I really like the part about scouts that can evaluate talent.

i'm worried about resigning pryor and collins next year. I'm willing to bet they both want the maximum, especially since pryors agent is rosenhaus. Is pryor really worth Julio Jones type money?

worse case, we let both go, and have even more cap room. then "build through the draft". Looking at that, it'll take 3-5 years to get a quality team. Jimmy will probably stay 40 million under the cap each year, and if his plan goes accordingly, by year 4 or 5, we'll be in the playoffs and he'll be paying the minimum. At worst, if we don't hit on the next two drafts, we go 1-15 and then 3-13 in the respective years and then he cans everyone, of course, that's the worst case scenario. Best case scenario is that we draft some studs, sign some free agents, and don't overpay for some of the people that we have. T Pryor doesn't deserve 50 or 60 million dollars in a multi year deal...... But Ricardo Louis and Cam Erving aren't talented enough to be on an NFL football team. We've gotta find some kind of balance. Call the "strategy" what you want, but Jimmy's being a cheapass.

@babernakle said:

Two reasons why not Jimmy G. Mallett and Cassell. How did those two work out when they went to other teams? Belichick isn't going to trade his QBOTF with a soon to be 40 year old Tom Brady manning the position. Trade Jimmy and keep Jacoby Brissett? Bill's smart enough to know Tom isn't going to be playing forever. Of course, if he can sucker some team into giving up a first round pick, I'm sure he'll listen.

The only reason we got Collins from the Pats is they didn't want to (or couldn't) come up with enough cash to keep him happy. The Browns have more cap room (by far) than any other team in the NFL. Bill has rarely let someone go who went on to excel with another team.

If you know anything at all about relative value to a team, left tackle (that's Joe) ranks only behind QB and pass rusher. It's why left tackles get drafted in the first round every year like clockwork. Teams don't like seeing their franchise quarterbacks getting killed. He can still probably play at his usual pro bowl level for a couple more years. If we're taking a qb either by trade or draft- a great blindside protector (like Thomas) is mandatory.

@hoorta said:

Clearly we need to start moving Joe around to keep Defenses guessing...

@miktoxic said:

I've got no problem with that.

His replacement can man the RT spot 'til it's time to step in for JT.

@texasag1969 said:

Well, in theory their plan is to draft the best players they can get.

But as we know from Browns drafts from Christmases past, the best laid plans aft gang aglay.

@hoorta said:

And I should add this thought that just popped into my head. Opposing defenses don't even bother to attack Joe Thomas. Why should they? Of late, teams have just been putting a bum opposite Joe to keep him occupied, and attack anywhere and everywhere else.

@babernakle said:

You place every blame on the O Line.. That may be fair. They lost Schwartz and Mack to FA, they lost Bitonio to injury. The backups that have stepped are not up to par. The rookies they have are just learning their way. Their starting center sucks swamp water and needs to be replaced. We get that.

But...here is the future: Bito will be back, Greco will be back. The Browns will draft an OL high...and another lower. Also, hopefully Drango/Coleman improve. I see a plan in place for the OL. But we still need that franchise QB at #1.

I don't see these guys doing what the team did to Tim Couch: put him out there with crap in front of him his whole tenure here.

In fact, I see the one position they may go after in FA being the OL. An Eric Steinbach like pickup. A somewhat proven commodity.

That is the OL plan as I see it.

So get a QB that can make things work behind that plan.