@clevfan4life said:

I never looked at it like that Clevs. It's an interesting theory though. I just looked at it like Kirksey has way better first step instinct than Demario so he's not nearly as easy to block. That's also a reflection on how well he prepares himself through the week. Furthermore, I think the schematic is to have the defensive line tie up/take on blockers rather than a LBer. I could be wrong on that though. Kirksey makes a lot of his tackles exactly where you want him to - up against the point of attack. That doesn't seem to happen nearly as much with Demario.

The same thing applied with the instincts/experience of Ray Lewis in comparison to that of Ellerbe. Ray Lewis had some of the best instincts I've ever seen. On top of that, nobody out-prepared the guy in the film room to the extent he often looked like he knew our playbook better than half the guys starting in our offense. He didn't need Ellerbe at all IMO; but he did enjoy how well guys like Siragusa and Ngata commanded attention in front of him to further assure nobody would block him. The best way we blocked him 1 year was when we trap blocked his side of the field and the tackle came down to shield/wall him off. One of the rare times I noticed he didn't anticipate/see something coming.

While Kirksey has a way to go before we compare his instincts to a HOF LBer, I've enjoyed tapping his productivity in my fantasy football league that counts tackles and tackles for losses. I see why he played his way to a team captain/leadership role for Kirk Ferentz. I love the way he prepares, which is a good thing for some of our lesser experienced guys on defense to learn from. I remember back when we had Scott Fujita and we ran Jauron's 43 scheme. The best thing he did for D'Qwell Jackson was help him spot his pre-snap keys and tendency tip-offs in the film room reviews for upcoming opponents. IMO, Jackson had his best year vrs the point of attack in Jauron's defense. He got there quicker and appeared to be a lot less blockable.

Remember how the ravens used elletbe to extend lewis's career? Without him rar ray would have had to retire earlier cause he couldnt fight off blocks anymore

@tour2ma said:

Yep.....pretty much our best defender this season.....though Danny is having a stellar season too......and these 2 are the brightest stars, in terms of our young talent and signs of us developing some long term quality players.....

Thinking Ogbah might fit that mold too.....

I know he is far and away our leading tackler... so there's that.

@tour2ma said:

Weak tea there... You don't think our incoming staff asked Shelton to shed pounds? You don't think they've coached him up? You talk as if his innate talent shown thru brightly all last season.

And Kirksey has ramped up his game every year so far. Davis is solid, but he's not augmenting Kirksey on the field that I can see.

1) i mentioned what shelton did but he did it on his own, there was some like yoga power class or something like that he was taking....but in any case it wasnt anything the browns helped him with it seems.

2) kirksey is fair but its davis filling most of the gaps properly from what ive seen. Davis is taking on the blocks, and still getting through them iften, that used to eat kirk up.

@taco918 said:

The Brown Tide....

There's a solid joke in there somewhere.

Yes there is, and its not one the browns prob want any part of

@gftchris said:

@gftchris said:

I have... I knew what I meant when I typed it. How did that not come thru?

"An OLB" in my original post was unclear. I meant it as in "the UCLA OLB" not the position. Edited the post...

@gftchris said:

You hadn't considered pass rusher with the second pick? It's come up here a lot, usually in the form of Tim Williams, but there's been a lot of 'QB first, then pass rusher' conversations. Personally, I could be on board with Jonathan Allen and Tim Williams. The Brown Tide sounds like something opposing OLs want to get out of the way of.

The Brown Tide....

There's a solid joke in there somewhere.

@westside-steve said:

You know a place that still deals from a single deck? Deal me in...

@jiggins7919 said:

... Allen... penetrates like a porn star...

lol... not sure about that, but agree he's a "drop-in & go" player.

@gftchris said:

If everyone's fine with either Garrett or Allen, would everyone object to moving down one spot, picking up SF's second or third round pick, for example?

Possible... unless of course SF doesn't have a strong preference either.

But if they did, even by the Harvard chart, their 1st and 2nd for our 1st and 4th (or Compensatory 3rd not headed the Pats' direction) is an equitable starting point.

@clevfan4life said:

shelton doesnt count cause he was already nfl strong when we drafted him. He's done some stuff on his own in the offseason to get better, which speaks for him but im failing to see where the browns staff has had a major impact on him. Kirksey is still meh in my book, he's benefitting this year playing next to demario.

Weak tea there... You don't think our incoming staff asked Shelton to shed pounds? You don't think they've coached him up? You talk as if his innate talent shown thru brightly all last season.

And Kirksey has ramped up his game every year so far. Davis is solid, but he's not augmenting Kirksey on the field that I can see.

@hoorta said:

I read McShay's comments. It's an early, formative mock meant only to stimulate discussion and interest. It got me thinking about an OLB (EDIT: The UCLA kid) with our second pick I'd not considered at all... that's all. Not cast in stone... even has several, "could also go" hedges within the comments. In our case he mentions Garrett at #1.

As for Trubs... some folks are purely need driven. You're going to love the tread on PFF's Top Ten QBs...

I did snap to the fact that ESPN is not going to take kindly to a subscriber posting their "Premium Content" in its entirety on reddit...

@taco918 said:

I guess that's a slight step ahead of asking a homeless guy. Progress fellas, progress.

lol... Did you consider that "a homeless guy" might have found an unlocked smart phone?

@gftchris said:

Danny Shelton begs to differ. And Christian Kirksey.

shelton doesnt count cause he was already nfl strong when we drafted him. He's done some stuff on his own in the offseason to get better, which speaks for him but im failing to see where the browns staff has had a major impact on him. Kirksey is still meh in my book, he's benefitting this year playing next to demario.

@clevfan4life said:

Danny Shelton begs to differ. And Christian Kirksey.

@stillmotion said:

he has us taking allen over garrett? lolz

Prob cause allen is ready to tangle with nfl ol right now. Garret will need work and,well, you know the browns dont have any history of properly developing drafted defensive front seven talent right?