@mudfly said:

You haven't complained about trade backs? That's not my recollection but I'll take your word for it.

We need neither edge nor WR help. If we take Garrett, it's because we couldn't get an acceptable trade offer and/or he's that much of an upgrade to our guys. That doesn't mean we need help there, that means we're taking BPA. I'd be perfectly happy going into this year with Orchard, Nassib, Ogbah, and Bryant at the edge. But if we take Myles, I'll be ok with that too.

Yes. WR, Edge, OT, and OLB are all not needs (maybe depth at OLB). Next question?

Your great record means nothing. You're a complainer now. I talk lots of football here. Yes, I also like to troll Gipper and Ghoolie and when people make pointless Eeyore-type posts I make fun of them too. I'm also engaged in ONE political thread just because it was started on this board. Aside from that, I never go to the politics board. So what you said is completely false. And the crux of the matter here is that you started this back and forth by complaining about my complaining. Because it's cool when you do it, but not anyone else.

Carry on.

Nope....and that is why Ive STARTED complaining....(this year)

Boy....this is something that I had not thought about. The only one that may not be a dire need is WR...simply because of the many WRs we got last year, plus having maybe Pryor on board.

@clevfan4life said:

Probably better than Cam Erving.

@jcam222 said:

Hey...these Harvard guys are smarter than everyone else...haven't you heard? They aren't going to change "their model" just because it makes sense.

@jcam222 said:

I knew I'd heard that somewhere before...

@hoorta said:

I'm not sure- is the waiver wire active? If it is, we can put a claim on him. I suppose that's another small perk (if you want to call it that) we get first crack at all the teams cuts.

Or is Mangold essentially a UFA, and can sign with any team he wants to? BTW, being from SW Ohio I don't doubt he's a Bengals fan.

UFA... the off-season hurdle is slightly less than 11 accrued seasons... (It's 4.)

During the season all releases are subject to waivers.

@mudfly said:

Want cheap insurance? Spend a 4th on Jon Toth.

@hoorta said:

NFL.com...Teams top 3 needs. Only the Bengals & Browns are listed as a Center as a team need. If Nick's not coming here. We sure as hell don't want that as a Bengal twice a year..

@tour2ma said:

"Developmental Center" is a thing now?.

Sadly, it is for our Browns.

@topdawg31 said:

I'm not sure- is the waiver wire active? If it is, we can put a claim on him. I suppose that's another small perk (if you want to call it that) we get first crack at all the teams cuts.

Or is Mangold essentially a UFA, and can sign with any team he wants to? BTW, being from SW Ohio I don't doubt he's a Bengals fan.

@mudfly said:

Because the barometer Farmer set at Center as high as a 1st round priority was only Cam Erving - who never looked nearly as good as my very first impression of Reiter despite so many more opportunities to do so. I'm guessing someone found a bunch of reasons to bring Reiter here in the first place. Keep in mind, that being only Reiter's first NFL start against a playoff team in a position/area where young players often improve with more experience and chemistry gave many of us reasons to be positive. Aside from that, look how much quicker Reiter grasped the same playbook and blocking schemes while showing an understanding of the defensive fronts/schemes Erving continued to struggle with.

If I was certain we were all set with Reiter (and his injury situation in particular), why would I want us to sign Mangold? Doing this allows us to avoid adding a bare cupboard to contend with in our 2017 draft volume. We had visitors the day we played Pittsburgh on the last week; but I thought I saw someone else playing the Center position much better than Erving was in his very first start as well. Crow looked like he was averaging 10 yards a carry between the tackles against their starting front 7 so the upgrade doesn't necessarily have to be Reiter here.

@wargograw said:

@mudfly said:

Mud all year: no trade backs, draft BPA, if we trade back I will murder someone.

Browns pre-draft: *plan to draft Myles Garrett, consensus BPA*

Mud: even though we tapped the top 2??? sackers last year

Always something to complain about.

@tour2ma said:

As I said, I've always liked Nick... still do.

I do too. I saw the ESPN 30 for 30 on the 1985 Bears again yesterday great story but some sad parts about Walter Payton and others in particular the linemen and even Jim McMahon with all their mental problems many from C.T.E.

True the NFL is doing some premptive measures now, well they were forced to do them. Still a guy with 11 years in the trenches I'd like to see them consider retirement. Hopefully they can financially swing it and haven't blown everything.

It's a young man's game.

Because I dont want to burn another pick on center......and I sure as hell dont want a repeat of last year......a year that we had Erving, John and Reiter.....yet OC was a joke....a revolving door.....considered our biggest problem....

So....our biggest problem is now corrected by just waiting a few months and not doing anything else?....

hmmmmm, Im not convinced....

I think between Reiter and Fabs we have adequate depth at Center and one that one of them will emerge as a more than adequate starter.

Then there's always John...

As I said, I've always liked Nick... still do.

@flugel said:

Austin Reiter played one game(almost).....how is everyone so sure this guy is our next center.....???

Besides, well be dicking around drafting "edge" at #1, even though we tapped the top 2??? sackers last year, eh?

And we're still needing a QB, WR, OT, OLB, SS & TE too .....even though we just.....oh, never mind....

@tour2ma said:

"Developmental Center" is a thing now?

I've loved Nick, but 11 seasons have taken their toll. I hope he lands with a contender.

Woulda looked pretty good in 2016, dont ya think?......maybe could have saved a few games(and QB's).....

Sometimes an old guy off the bench is just what the doctor ordered......developmental?....or "save the day"

@tour2ma said:

"Developmental Center" is a thing now?

I've loved Nick, but 11 seasons have taken their toll. I hope he lands with a contender.

Maybe centers have value but maybe if he's smart the kid from Centerville, OH hangs them up and goes to coach with Urban if he doesn't want to be a BROWN.

I've loved Nick, but 11 seasons have taken their toll. I hope he lands with a contender.

@jcam222 said:

LMAO! But I agree with your intrigue here. We got some really good football out of Hank Fraley when he was 2-3 years older than Mangold is today. At the very least, he could buy some time for the previous upgrade we found at Center (currently rehabbing his knee) Austin Reiter.

It would be nice if we didn't have to dick around in this draft looking for another Center.

@jcam222 said:

Couldnt agree more.....any "model" that doesnt include experience and leadership bites.....

It s been pretty clear all along that I think this model is flawed.....The fo states that their goal is sustained success....

You canT achieve sustained success(in the NFL) with only youth....think of the properly operating team as a conveyor....2 get on at the beginning, while 2 fall off the other end.....and, as long as you "properly" feed the machine, it sustains......

But if you throw 30 onto the conveyor, all at once.....then watch all 30 fall off the other end....

Payrolls and standard evolution of any quality team means you need diversity across the board(in age and experience and cost) and that is achieved by having the proper mix of players.....which includes affordable, skilled, experienced vets that only bring you a year or 2, but are invaluable to maintaining a balance, filling gaps and aiding the development of the kids....

The list of old vets that have stepped in and served WELL, for a limited time is miles long......both on the Browns and on most NFL championship teams........and the sooner this FO realizes it, the better too....

@logicisforsquares said:

I am sure Mangold will be trying to go to a playoff team in need of a Center at the end of his career.

You never know on that many Ohio born or former OHIO STATE players return to the BROWNS once they're basically physically shot or just unwanted elsewhere for some big easy paychecks.

Let's see, from memory :

T. Pryor, Stabline, Whitner, I'm sure there are lots more.....