@inspecta said:

I'll give you an example. Say we are running a sweep left, and the tackle is supposed to block down while the guard pulls out. Now lets say that guard doesn't pull but also blocks down, on tape it will look like the tackle just completely missed his guy and whiffed big time. When in reality it was the guards fault. Watching tape of the O-line only helps in showing you how an individual looks in one on one matchups. Only the coaches really know what's going on.

But again you can have 3 average linemen and throw in two studs who gets everybody on the same page and that line will look exponentially better. Conversely you can have 4 studs, and then throw in 1 schmuck and everything breaks down. They are in a symbiotic relationship where everybody depends on everybody else to know their assignments and not get beat by their guy.

That's exactly why I think Tucker is so important to this unit. He seemed to solidify the line in 2007, he is well respected in the locker room and plays with a lot of heart. Let's just hope they can all stay relatively healthy so they can come together as a unit.

@mario said:

Are you following me Moron?

Then Toballazinthemouth said Rex Hadnot was worthless. I thought Rex did a pretty good job last year so I looked up some stats. Ever done that? Riffer X i'm asking you, have you ever looked up some stats?

Looking up the stats of sacks allowed by our starting linemen, I discovered that Rex Hadnot only allowed 1.5 sacks. It was mentinoed Rex was terrible in pass coverage. Rex can't be too terrible if he allowed 3 less sacks then our "Stud" Joe Thomas.

I then watched a little bit of film. I have EVERY SINGLE BROWNS GAME from the last two years on my computer. Rex obviously only played for us in 08, so I keyed in on the running plays. By watching the Running plays it seems that Rex had the most push up field of all our linemen. Steinbach suprsiingly had the least push of any linemen, but he is also our "slimest" linemen so I don't expect him to drive his opponet 10 yards up field.

Got it?

Good.

Assfark.

Now that is about the most worthless post I've read in a long time. Obviously you don't have a clue about football or breaking down film. Rewatching a game isn't breaking down film you numbnuts. You can't see missed assignments or missed stunts. You can't see where he was suppose to pull and didn't get to the hole before the RB. You don't see him getting pushed 3 yards back into the backfield by an average DT or missing a blitzing ILB.

Hadnot is an adaquate backup and that is what he was signed to be. This year he may be behind both Tucker and Womack on the depth charts. If everybody comes out of training camp healthy, he may be on the street looking for work.

Get a grip Mr. Tough Guy, you already own the douchebag of the year award and you are lapping the field for the asshole of the year award.

@mario said:

Are you following me Moron?

Then Toballazinthemouth said Rex Hadnot was worthless. I thought Rex did a pretty good job last year so I looked up some stats. Ever done that? Riffer X i'm asking you, have you ever looked up some stats?

Looking up the stats of sacks allowed by our starting linemen, I discovered that Rex Hadnot only allowed 1.5 sacks. It was mentinoed Rex was terrible in pass coverage. Rex can't be too terrible if he allowed 3 less sacks then our "Stud" Joe Thomas.

I then watched a little bit of film. I have EVERY SINGLE BROWNS GAME from the last two years on my computer. Rex obviously only played for us in 08, so I keyed in on the running plays. By watching the Running plays it seems that Rex had the most push up field of all our linemen. Steinbach suprsiingly had the least push of any linemen, but he is also our "slimest" linemen so I don't expect him to drive his opponet 10 yards up field.

Got it?

Good.

Assfark.

You are a total douche.

I did not insult or attack you and yet you decide to start calling names.

I never said he was worthless, so if you're going to quote me do it right, I said he was serviceable and average at best.

Notice how much better Shaffer looked with Tucker next to him over having Hadnot next to him?

Hadnot did not get the big push Tucker did.

Hadnot was weaker in pass protection than Tucker was.

Hadnot often chipped his block off to Shaffer where Shaffer would have to deal with more than one rusher, then go to the next guy. The result was Shaffer got unfairly credited with a sack because now he was dealing with Rex's guy as well.

That's a big no-no in pass blocking.

You obviously have no idea how an offensive line works and just look at numbers.

So put down your copies of Madden and Tecmo Bowl and learn the damn game before you start ripping into people.

PS, I'd have to say Steeler SChuck up there is a more astute pupil of the game than yourself.

@mario said:

Are you following me Moron?

Then Toballazinthemouth said Rex Hadnot was worthless. I thought Rex did a pretty good job last year so I looked up some stats. Ever done that? Riffer X i'm asking you, have you ever looked up some stats?

Looking up the stats of sacks allowed by our starting linemen, I discovered that Rex Hadnot only allowed 1.5 sacks. It was mentinoed Rex was terrible in pass coverage. Rex can't be too terrible if he allowed 3 less sacks then our "Stud" Joe Thomas.

I then watched a little bit of film. I have EVERY SINGLE BROWNS GAME from the last two years on my computer. Rex obviously only played for us in 08, so I keyed in on the running plays. By watching the Running plays it seems that Rex had the most push up field of all our linemen. Steinbach suprsiingly had the least push of any linemen, but he is also our "slimest" linemen so I don't expect him to drive his opponet 10 yards up field.

Got it?

Good.

Assfark.

Holy crap Super Mario, you just won three different Browns Board Awards for this epic meltdown.

1) Tough Guy of the Year Award taking the title from the disappeared Dawg the Douchebag Hunter

2) Least Astute Football Observation Award for not knowing dick about oline play.

3) Effeminate Bitch Post of the Year for not being able to debate football or read related posts that clearly spoke of your mancrush Sexy Rexy.

Other than that, damn good work. You have now reached Lumnuts status.

@mario said:

My sympathies.

And think of all the porn and music that could be occupying that memory space.

Regards

..... an'at

.

Are you following me Moron?

Then Toballazinthemouth said Rex Hadnot was worthless. I thought Rex did a pretty good job last year so I looked up some stats. Ever done that? Riffer X i'm asking you, have you ever looked up some stats?

Looking up the stats of sacks allowed by our starting linemen, I discovered that Rex Hadnot only allowed 1.5 sacks. It was mentinoed Rex was terrible in pass coverage. Rex can't be too terrible if he allowed 3 less sacks then our "Stud" Joe Thomas.

I then watched a little bit of film. I have EVERY SINGLE BROWNS GAME from the last two years on my computer. Rex obviously only played for us in 08, so I keyed in on the running plays. By watching the Running plays it seems that Rex had the most push up field of all our linemen. Steinbach suprsiingly had the least push of any linemen, but he is also our "slimest" linemen so I don't expect him to drive his opponet 10 yards up field.

Got it?

Good.

Assfark.

@riffer-x said:

Last year was a complete aberration and not the norm.

Retards

an'fat

I think you're trying to say what i stated earlier - except with a queebland accent. The O-line is very important, but not omnipotent.

And it's pretty satisfying to hear a stains fan give Ben props after all the years of suggesting he is a fraud.

Either way, the Steelers are a winning franchise. They can do it with the "formula" or outside of it. That's what winning franchises do. Hell, maybe our defense falters off over the next few years and we snag a couple Lombardi's with the passing offense.

It's always a great day for Steeler fans.

Regards

.... an'at

.

Steeler SChuck said:

Try watching some football for a change, it does wonders for your understanding of the game.

Regards

.... an'at

.

Yeah, but come on Chubby Chucker you gotta admit I'm hearing Puker fan claim their line has sucked for awhile which is not true. Even Stains fans knew your line was going to suck last year but the fact is Big Gay carried you guys along with your defense. It wasn't prototypical smashmouth like in the past when you had HOFers at center and guys like Faneca. For years you guys had good and deep lines, but last year was the worst since I can remember and especially in pass protection.

Last year was a complete aberration and not the norm.

Retards

an'fat

Sometimes you can take all the stats in the world and flush them, they mean nothing. There are times it's just better to watch the games and go by what you see.

I am on the fence with Hadnot. I thought he was slightly fat and out of shape last year, which correlates directly to him signing a new contract and band camp with RAC 'n ROLLS. He also didn't have much help around him especially with Fraley and later with Kevvy Shafe. However, he was very slow laterally and didn't move his feet well nor get to the second level effectively. That wouldn't have been so bad if he was a legit plowhorse but he wasn't. I think dude can play if motivated and in shape but I don't think he's smart enough to play center, at least not by hearing him interviewed and what he showed last year. We know that Mancock likes guys to be able to spell, so who knows what they think of him.

There is an outside shot he gets cut if his cap hit isn't bad, but there is also a good chance he is a huge contributor before the year is out.

@tobalaz said:

You had EXCELLENT runblockers on the line, it's just their pass protection was suspect.

However, Ben holding on to the ball as long as he does at times made their pass blocking look worse than it really was.

Another thing is both Big Gay Ben and Byron Leftwich have a slower wind up on their passes, once the tackles started carrying back their blocks an extra 3 feet they looked much better giving their qbs an extra second and a half.

I do agree with everyone else however, cohesion of the unit and the ability to work together as one is just as if not more important than the talent that encompasses it.

That must explain why we were #23 in rushing last year.

Try watching some football for a change, it does wonders for your understanding of the game.

Regards

.... an'at

.

Yards/ on which down/ ect?

@calfoxwc said:

***********************

But Hadnot was not playing tackle in space. He was playing guard. See the diff?

Also, OT's don't normally get a lot of help. They are suppose to play in space and keep everything from going outside on Pass plays.

Guards on the other hand will get help from time to time from a center. They will be one on one as well but they do often get help from the center.

If you look at the stats, you'll never see guards with 10 to 12 sacks allowed like you do OT's.

I'm sure Steinbach loved the Browns #1 pick!

@riffer-x said:

I still think Tucker is much more valuable a guard than tackle because it's his strength at this point in his career.

I think we are on the same page. I also think Tucker is a better RG at this point in his career and St Clair is solid. But, I also don't think Tucker will embarass himself if he has to move out to RT. Sorry but those who think Hadnot is even close to a healthy Tucker are fooling themselves.

Make no mistake, I think they should definately address RT at the next draft but we will be fine on the line this year. Mangini and Kokinis did a good job bringing in some solid backups that can step in and play , if needed, and they solidified the middle of the line. Nice job, now if they can figure out how to put some pressure on the QB, we will have a decent season.

***********************

But Hadnot was not playing tackle in space. He was playing guard. See the diff?

@greythan said:

If healthy, Tucker is our best OL. I believe that. The only question I would have is his age and if he's finally "lost a step". If not, he'll be starting at RT and we'll have the rest of the candidates competing for the RG spot. Tucker has ample pass protection skills and can flat out stomp in run blocking. I'm a big fan.

Make no mistake, i like tucker as well.

I will also say i would like him better if he was 26.

My comment was based more on the long term rather than seeing if Tuck and band-aid together 1 more season.

ANd don't give me some horsesheetz about they don't rush up the middle in 3-4's which we play against, because Steinbach gave up 3 sacks in only 3 starts.

Don't let name credibility fool you. Thomas & Steinbach were okay this past year, but nowhere near what they were in 2007 when our left side dominated. The entire line needs some discipline this year.

@oldcrow1945 said:

Baltimore.

#1 in total defense

#14 in total offense. Lewis was only the 7th leading rusher that year. They were very, very good at rushing the ball. But it was still their defense that won that championship.

That stat of the #1 Defense and #14 offense kinda makes my point even more. An average offense and a great defense

It was the passing game that was dismal, the offensive line was nothing short of incredible.

Remember, Baltimore had 3 different qbs starting through the season because not one of them could step up and outright win the job.

Dillfer, Redmon and Banks all sucked it up pretty bad and if they had a real qb they would have won another 2 superbowls easy.

Lewis did finish 7th in rushing, and if they had someone to take the heat off of him it could have been higher.

I agree 100% though, it was their defense that won it all for them.

@tobalaz said:

The Ravens had a great line and running game with mediocre passing game.

Trent Frakin Dillweed man, come on!

I will admit, I hadn't seen a defense just flat out dominate like that since the 85 Bears.

I understand your points and don't totally disagree but just look at the ranking in 2000.

Baltimore.

#1 in total defense

#14 in total offense. Lewis was only the 7th leading rusher that year. They were very, very good at rushing the ball. But it was still their defense that won that championship.

That stat of the #1 Defense and #14 offense kinda makes my point even more. An average offense and a great defense

@oldcrow1945 said:

The Steelers proved one thing. Just as the Raven did a few years ago. You can win a Super Bowl with an average offense as long as you have a fantastic defense to carry the load.

I'm sorry but Ogden was one of the best left tackles to play in the last 20 years.

The Ravens had a great line and running game with mediocre passing game.

Trent Frakin Dillweed man, come on!

I will admit, I hadn't seen a defense just flat out dominate like that since the 85 Bears.

Steeler SChuck said:

Our line is mediocre at best and we won 2 SB's with it.

A solid O-line is nice, but if you don't have players in other key spots, none of it means dick.

In the end it had little to do with the Steeler's O-line or their QB or their RB's or the WR's

The Steelers proved one thing. Just as the Raven did a few years ago. You can win a Super Bowl with an average offense as long as you have a fantastic defense to carry the load.

@ytownbrownsbacker said:

Look at it this way, if you go across from left to right you have four studs in a row with JT, Steiny, Mack and Tucker. If it's St. Clair that fills in we'll be able to pinpoint where we need help at RT and only in the passing game. Tucker will be able to help out from his guard spot whereas both center and RT will have to help out the RG spot. It's a no brainer to me, but it will be sorted out in camp. I thought I heard where Hadnot was coming in a new man this year in better shape, but I have no links to support that.

I still think Tucker is much more valuable a guard than tackle because it's his strength at this point in his career.

@greythan said:

If healthy, Tucker is our best OL. I believe that. The only question I would have is his age and if he's finally "lost a step". If not, he'll be starting at RT and we'll have the rest of the candidates competing for the RG spot. Tucker has ample pass protection skills and can flat out stomp in run blocking. I'm a big fan.

You are right on. If healthy tucker will start somewhere and that swomewhere depends on St. clair and Womack/Hadnot. Whomever performs better, will start next to Tucker. As far as Hadnot and his giving up sacks, we palyed 3-4 teams that don't rush the passer from the inside. Hadnot and Shaffer were pathetic in run blocking and below average in pass blocking. Hadnot may look a bit better with a strong center, but I really think it is Tuckers job and St clair will be given the shot at RT. Starting next to Tucker should help him a lot. In Chicago he was on an island at LT, he won't be here.

If healthy, Tucker is our best OL. I believe that. The only question I would have is his age and if he's finally "lost a step". If not, he'll be starting at RT and we'll have the rest of the candidates competing for the RG spot. Tucker has ample pass protection skills and can flat out stomp in run blocking. I'm a big fan.

If you want to compare:

Joe Thomas allowed 4.5 sacks last season (16 starts & ProBowl)

Eric Steinbach allowed 3 Sacks (14 Starts)

Hank Fraley Allowd 2.5 sacks (16 starts)

Kevin Shaffer allowed 4.5 sacks. (15 starts)

With Rex Hadnot actually allowing the least amount of sacks out of ALL starting Browns OLinemen, I would say that Hadnot is going to be our starting RG unless somebody proves to be a stud.

Tucker & St. Clair are going to battle for RT. If Tucker can't win RT it is simply because he is to old and slow, and they aren't going to let him start at RG then. He will be a backup for G and T.