.. nothing lucky about a good "punch out" of the ball...

... or a "decleater" separating ball from carrier...

.... or a FS watching a QB's eyes and then timing a run to cut the ball off from getting to a WR...

..... and really... not even a diving INT off a tipped ball.

How many are caused by 1) Improperly run routes & 2) Bouncing off "brick hands" (see Braylon, Ricardo, etc, etc)?

Mike

@the-gipper said:

Three players can an do make a world of difference. It has to be the right 3. Not sure if we have those. Hopefully.

IMHO the problem has been the tendency to look for an immediate savior in the draft. Bad teams do that, but good teams develop players. They have to, because the perennial contenders are guaranteed not to even get a whiff of the few top players who may be good right out of the box. With bad teams, much of the time players are what they are and don't develop.

@buck-the-frowns said:

Three players can an do make a world of difference. It has to be the right 3. Not sure if we have those. Hopefully.

@the-gipper said:

@buck-the-frowns said:

Come on pgh was one win from going to the super bowl, the Browns were one win away from no wins. There is a lot more difference than three players.

You didn't watch that game then. Pitt sat their three players....and Browns should have won the game going away. Only their own stupid fuckups prevented them winning.

Well if that's all there is to it, the Browns got three good players this year so let's just sit back and watch the playoff appearances accrue.

@buck-the-frowns said:

@buck-the-frowns said:

Come on pgh was one win from going to the super bowl, the Browns were one win away from no wins. There is a lot more difference than three players. We need to live in reality here, though that seems to have gone out of style in this country. Let's say that the Browns made good steps for improvement in the draft.

Anyway, I think the most overrated statistic is 40 yard dash time. There are players who are fast when timed but without results on the field (ex, Dri Archer), and there are players who are slow when timed but somehow produce yardage (ex, Jerry Rice). And it is irrelevant for say, D-linemen. If you depend on them running 40 yards something is very wrong.

@the-gipper said:

They weren't that good last year. Not really. Pitt had 3 good players that was the difference between them and the Browns. But those 3 do make a world of difference.

In a sense, those 3 support Ghoolie's argument about how important skill players are: QB/RB/WR.

Come on pgh was one win from going to the super bowl, the Browns were one win away from no wins. There is a lot more difference than three players. We need to live in reality here, though that seems to have gone out of style in this country. Let's say that the Browns made good steps for improvement in the draft.

Anyway, I think the most overrated statistic is 40 yard dash time. There are players who are fast when timed but without results on the field (ex, Dri Archer), and there are players who are slow when timed but somehow produce yardage (ex, Jerry Rice). And it is irrelevant for say, D-linemen. If you depend on them running 40 yards something is very wrong.

@one-post said:

Pretty much...

@one-post said:

They weren't that good last year. Not really. Pitt had 3 good players that was the difference between them and the Browns. But those 3 do make a world of difference.

In a sense, those 3 support Ghoolie's argument about how important skill players are: QB/RB/WR.

All of them except for winning, bitches

@the-gipper said:

Pittsburgh and Cincy will not be that good. Pitt might win the division with a 9-7 record. Balt. will be lucky to go .500. Cincy will be lucky to beat out the Browns.

@tour2ma said:

Pittsburgh and Cincy will not be that good. Pitt might win the division with a 9-7 record. Balt. will be lucky to go .500. Cincy will be lucky to beat out the Browns.

Post-Draft Win-Loss Predictions for Every NFL Team
The Cleveland Browns will be better in 2017. This isn't much of a stretch since the team finished the 2016 campaign with a woeful 1-15 record.

But the organization deserves some credit for building its roster the right way. In just two drafts under the leadership of executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown, chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta and head coach Hue Jackson, the franchise selected 24 prospects and built an amazing amount of future draft capital.

Draft assets are only good if they're used to provide top talent, though. The Browns added the consensus No. 1 overall talent in Texas A&M's Myles Garrett and then found ways to acquire two premium athletes in Michigan safety Jabrill Peppers and Miami tight end David Njoku later in the first round. In a draft class that didn't feature a premier quarterback talent, Cleveland didn't force a pick. Instead, the front office waited and still landed Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer in the second round.

With massive investments along the offensive and defensive lines—including the free-agent acquisitions of JC Tretter and Kevin Zeitler—the Browns are finally establishing an identity.

Prediction: 4-12

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706881-post-draft-win-loss-predictions-for-every-nfl-team

FYI... BLT: 8-8; CIN: 8-8; PTG: 12-4

@ghoolie said:

I was the first to point out that only an asshole thinks this is important. What a team was in 2016 bears no meaning on what they will be in 2017. EXCEPT for the Browns. A game against the browns is a 16 - 1 odds chance of a win.

@tour2ma said:

First, way too early pass at this...

EDIT: ... and ATL over NE in the SB...

I gave this a shot...

I was surprised at the below returns

Bucs 5-11 , expect they'll be better than that

Texans 4-12, see above

Dolphins 6-10, see above

Bengals 7-9, think they'll be worse than that

Broncos 11-5, see above

Have NYG over Pit (ugh) in the SB

@tour2ma said:

No way there are four 14-2 teams.

We'll have 8 common opponents, 4 AFC (the AFCN) and 4 NFC (the NFCN). Add back in the 6 divisional game and there's two to go.

To fill the schedule:

• we drew - NYJ & LAC.
• BLT drew - OAK & MIA
• CIN drew - BUF & DNV
• PTG drew - KC & NE

Pretty safe to say that on paper we're facing the weakest pair of unique opponents... although Cinci's pair aren't far behind...