And I find it interesting that an explanation for continued racism comes up when discussing African Americans but not other minority groups. I mean, do we say that anti-Semitism persists because of something Jewish folks are doing? Or prejudice against Asians?

That's why I see it more as an excuse for irrational racism, not a real cause. Al

*******************************************

In the service, we were just a bunch of soldiers.

We were from every walk of life I suppose, that there is.

A good ole boy from the poor part of the bayou, a rich pouty kid who only joined

because he wanted to pay back his father because his father wanted him to start

in the company as a janitor as a senior in high school, a guy who was in a gang in

some big city, I forget. He lived in a ghetto, parents sold out to drugs and drink in his early young years,

moved from a nice suburb he remembers to the city - it was so much cheaper.

his family was the gang. It's how he had food and safe shelter.

He only enlisted because it was either that, or go to jail because he got into a bit

of trouble. One of my close friends was a poor kid from the beaches of Puerto Rico,

I've told that story before.

Of course, in the service, there were all colors of people that there are, and more stories

and backgrounds, ...the majority? were regular guys from regular places, I think.

I've heard a lot about racism from those friends back then, I never knew much of it at all,

personally. It's a tragedy to classify an entire group in general, as I see it, as an object of projected

hatred for whatever warped reasons a bigot might have.

There is no rational reason for racism/bigotry.

@heckofajobbrownie said:

"If you are black and/or mexican they roll out the red carpet for all types of benefits from the government.

If you're white, not so much."

Perhaps you'd like to explain how the government benefits Rush noted - unemployment benefits, food stamps, or traditional welfare programs -- are made more available to blacks and Mexicans than they are to white people.

I was under the impression that the benefits were made available to all people who qualified, regardless of their race.

(Unlike you, I also think it's quite easy to argue Rush's points, because they're beyond ridiculous.

Let's not forget to talk about affirmitive action!

mz. said:

Then I don't loan a 16 year old kid 50 grand.

Should college be free for everyone?

WSS

@inspecta said:

That's where we disagree. Sure, there are some social and cultural issues that adversely impact members of the black community. But I see that as a problem that is hindering their advancement, not an explanation for why racism persists.

And I find it interesting that an explanation for continued racism comes up when discussing African Americans but not other minority groups. I mean, do we say that anti-Semitism persists because of something Jewish folks are doing? Or prejudice against Asians?

That's why I see it more as an excuse for irrational racism, not a real cause. Also, the social/cultural issues alone can't explain why African Americans haven't reached economic or social equality, especially when Ta-Nehisi Coates can cite examples like these:

In 2001, a researcher sent out black and white job applicants in Milwaukee, randomly assigning them a criminal record. The researcher concluded that a white man with a criminal record had about the same chance of getting a job as a black man without one. Three years later, researchers produced the same results in New York under more-rigorous conditions.

That's just crazy. And not something you can easily explain away as something black people are bringing onto themselves.

@inspecta said:

It's like when he was talking about the young girl that was killed in NC, and he was sitting there feeling anxiety over who committed the crime, and he was fearful that it was a black guy because the type of crime fit the mold for what a black guy would do. And sure enough it was a black guy that did it.

I'm afraid you may be misunderstanding him. He said that was part of a "psychosis" he and other African Americans share, not something that's justified based on the evidence.

As a Jewish American, I felt the same type of fear when I first heard that some guy on Wall Street had stolen billions of dollars. Turns out I was right as well, but it doesn't mean that Jews are money-grubbing their way into being discriminated against.

The whole Cosby-Coates discussion is one largely contained within the black community. It's not about explaining why racism persists; rather, it's largely premised on the assumption that racism will continue, so a more self-reliant approach is necessary.

One of the drawbacks of the approach is that it accepts racism and doesn't recognize the need to challenge injustice. That's one of the main problems Du Bois had with Washington's approach. And considering that Coates puts Cosby in the Washington tradition, it's not surprising that some are conflating that shift away from combating racism with a tacit recognition that African Americans are responsible for its persistence. But I think that's a fundamental misreading of what Cosby's trying to say.

It's "Sure, black people are listless thugs who drain the Treasury, but my wife loves Wayne Brady."

@inspecta said:

Never said you said ALL. You misread me. Go back and look.

@inspecta said:

Do you want stats for black on black crime?

The number of black people on welfare?

The number of black people currently incarcirated?

Sure, why not.

If you have a point to make, and want to debate these issues, stats never hurt. They support your argument.

Don't you think T sounds stupid when he says "all gays rape kids?"

@inspecta said:

I could provide those numbers and you'd still hem and haw around the issue.

I think you know that's false, but think whatever you like.

WRONG.

We'll see if you'd tripped over your self-promoting verbage long enough to admit it.

And by "know", I mean "know of."

And you are correct, you could care less. If you cared less than you currently did, you wouldn't come back to try (and fail) to discredit me.mz the pussy

*****************************************************

This is coming from a guy who has never presented any statistical evidence to back anything up. EVER.

And you are correct, you could care less. If you cared less than you currently did, you wouldn't come back to try (and fail) to discredit me.

The mirror doesn't lie. But Nancy Pelosi does. (mz the pussy's heroine)

@inspecta said:

But I'm not, because I could really care less.

This is coming from a guy who has never presented any statistical evidence to back anything up. EVER. And "black people in the ghetto all own Escalades!!" is not statistical evidence.

And you are correct, you could care less. If you cared less than you currently did, you wouldn't come back to try (and fail) to discredit me.

@inspecta said:

Why am I not surprised.

How many times to I have to say that I acknowledge a problem, like you, but don't necessarily agree with your anecdotal evidence applied to the group as a whole? This IS NOT discrediting your personal experience.

Aloysius said:

An absolutely great perspective piece.

@inspecta said:

With all of cal's and T's trash sources, you choose to question the validity of a high school's Wikipedia entry. Yes, I edited my high school's Wikipedia entry. It is a Liberal, biased online encyclopedia after all. I guess I could ask Columbia HS's principal to email you if you prefer.

Better source?

http://www.muninetguide.com/schools/NJ/Map...Sr-High-School/

Latino - 4.4%

4.4% of Columbia Sr High School's students are Latino

White - 37.3%

37.3% of Columbia Sr High School's students are Caucasian

Black - 55.6%

55.6% of Columbia Sr High School's students are of African descent

Asian - 2.7%

2.7% of Columbia Sr High School's students are of Asian descent

Perhaps you're the sheltered one, Inspecta.

And nobody's ignoring the problem, just your anecdotal accounts of it.

@inspecta said:

You should read the entire article, as well as Coates' video supplement to the piece.

I think Coates does a good job of explaining where Cosby's coming from (a perspective you may not be comfortable with) and offering a counterargument (one I find convincing).

@westside-steve said:

I'm glad you are, but it does matter. It's too much to ask of a 16 year old kid IMO.

@inspecta said:

So take it on a case-by-case basis and stop generalizing.

mz. said:

Actually yes, but that doesn't matter.

I've never finished my degree.

But:

We're talking about a government benefit. A cheap loan.

I don't support making public school K through 16.

WSS

@inspecta said:

So am I to assume your entire experience with the black population came from the 4 years you spent in high school?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_High...ol_(New_Jersey)

Columbia High School is an extremely diverse school ethnically, with just over half the students being of African-American heritage and just under half being Caucasian. There has been much discussion regarding the Racial Academic Achievement Gap in the school district. During the 2004-2005 school year, the student run Martin Luther King Association organization demanded more access to higher level academics for minorities in the district. Most recently, on March 29, 2006 there was a student walk-out and protest regarding issues such as the outsourcing of security positions, a proposed schedule change, and alleged racial remarks made by the principal. The protest was considered a success. The superintendent announced his resignation the next day. The protest is also believed to have heavily influenced the Board of Education election a few weeks later. Two incumbent members were voted out, including the chairman, in a landslide election.

Good enough? I made a claim and backed it with DATA.

Do you want me to forward you my transcripts? Or how about a urine sample?

I also went to college in Atlanta, GA. Do we need to have a discussion on Atlanta's demographics now too?

Stop being a dick, dude.

@inspecta said:

I just explained to you how the law doesn't allow a free ride. Why would you think that means I'm in favor of a free ride, or against personal responsibility?

I'm suggesting that many people who rail against welfare cheats and those who live off the government don't really know how welfare works, because it doesn't allow people to stay in a permanent state of dependence, or for even that long.

@westside-steve said:

WSS

Are you doing what you thought you'd be doing with your life when you were sixteen?

@inspecta said:

Because I believe in the inherent goodness of people and what you see as "letting people off the hook from personal responsibility" I see as "giving poor people a fcuking chance."

The "you guys" shit has grown incredibly tiresome.

mz. said:

The plan is to "get an education." Does the gov't come in and check to see your Burger King operation to "see how you're doing"?

If you get a govt SBA loan? Hell yes they do.

They want a complete business outline with profit projections and a look at your hiring habits.

Hey if you're aski8ng for a hand then expect to be upfront abpout it.

Go to the bank and ask for a home loan. Tell 'em to piss off when they ask you where that house is and how you're gonna pay for it.

Tell 'em "The plan is to get a goddam house!!"

I think this places much more pressure on the student. Not only does he have to worry about his grades, and what his parents think, but now what the gov't thinks.

Plus, asking a 16-17 year old what he plans to do with his education is a fruitless enterprise. Even if he/she is a smart kid.

Then why's he going? Just to go?

WSS

@inspecta said:

I'm not dismissing it completely, and I regret making you think I said that. I'm just taking it for what it is, one man's life experience.

@inspecta said:

I just have to shake my head and come to the conclusion you've led a very sheltered life if you've never experienced the things I've been talking about. One has to think that you're interaction with black people have been very limited, like say to watching the Chappelle show or something.

This is why you shouldn't make assumptions, friend. I went to a half-black high school outside of Newark, NJ. But nice asshole comments about someone you know nothing about, anyway.