@the-gipper said:

And I don't think the Browns have to even produce a lot of wins for that to happen. Just producing exciting games with a lot of young talent showing the future is all the spark that is needed. It's the main reason I have talked up building the D first, because you can do that faster than a superior offense. Plus that formula has worked well for teams that eventually win SBs.

@mudfly said:

By losing I think it is basically that fans are becoming "fair weather"....but, with any kind of spark of competiveness I think all those "lost fans" come flocking back.

@tour2ma said:

East of Eden

(will the millennials get that?)

@calfoxwc said:

Cal getting ready to head over to practice:

@wargograw said:

Im not really worried about them.....just dont want Jimmah to move our training camp to Columbus.....thats all

@mudfly said:

But my point is there's really no reason to worry about the lost Clevelanders.

Once upon a time they practiced on Case Institute's field. Even installed a patch of that new-fangled Astroturf for testing cleats and kickers to practice.

Those were the days...

@wargograw said:

me too....I think if the team wins, the fans will come back in droves.....(just like they left....which they would have to do in order to come back.....which was my first point to begin with).....so, agreed...

@calfoxwc said:

Mud, all that drivel doesn't impress me. I never called oneil the best, blah blah.

It's just that whining about the past doesn't change anything with the Browns.

Im more in the moment than anything Cal....last season I whined about this FO and this team and this coach, based on last year....this year Ive been complimentary of that same FO, based on what Ive seen this year.....tis you that lives in the future fantasy land, whilst telling me not to live in the past, even though Im commenting on the here and now...

Give it freaking up already. If it isn't fun, get a freaking hobby until it is.

Who said football isnt fun?.....Its losing that isnt fun.....wish the Browns would give THAT up......My hobby IS football....I like it, I study it, I form opinions on it....just because they dont align with yours doesnt mean I should give it up.....

Meanwhile, I'm more like upbeat that the Browns are turning the corner now.

Ill be elated if they do.....but you've had em turning that corner for years now.....Im waiting to actually see it.....

I don't have to see them in the superbowl before I stop bitching about the old front offices, the old

draft debacles, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

me either...Im bitchin about the more current ones.....

Maybe it would help the Browns win games if you whipped yourself with chains and fasted, Mud.

It might....lord knows they dont know the formula....

No, I'm just kidding, don't do that. Even Eyore was upbeat once or twice...almost.

I was quite the optimist for a coupla years on this board....only shifted this past year, when Haslam shit the bed for the third or fourth time....and the FO he placed did some of the dumbest shit ever......and, EVEN WITH THAT, I gave credit where it was due for the couple/few good picks and this years draft.....but, as Ive said before, you only see what you choose to see.....

It's just that whining about the past doesn't change anything with the Browns.

Give it freaking up already. If it isn't fun, get a freaking hobby until it is.

Meanwhile, I'm more like upbeat that the Browns are turning the corner now.

I don't have to see them in the superbowl before I stop bitching about the old front offices, the old

draft debacles, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Maybe it would help the Browns win games if you whipped yourself with chains and fasted, Mud.

No, I'm just kidding, don't do that. Even Eyore was upbeat once or twice...almost.

@calfoxwc said:

Oh, come on, Mud. This has been just the calm before the Browns storm. I think when anyone looks at how much the last

draft and free agency signings will be dramatically changing the Browns' landscape - they are going to be a different,

as in, WINNING and ASSKICKING football team.

I agree they look like they might have gotten a few players....things may be looking up. But what does that have to do with years of losing fans? The fact that they might get better does not exclude the fact that they've lost fans.....and many have lost interest.....its obvious to those who chose to see the obvious....(but I do understand this excludes you)

I'm just not seeing the despondency -

Have you not read thousands of posts....right here....from despondent fans?.....are you blind?

I see a giant huge climb to a winning season.

Anythings possible...but, AGAIN, not the topic.....I see an improved season, but not a winning one...

I don't get giving up, being down..

Well, a lot have given up.....many of us are still here(not given up), but certainly down......who loses for 20 years and doesnt feel down?......the only ones I can think of would be people who think losing is acceptable.....winners do NOT take 20 years of losing well.....

well, maybe in the middle-end of a losing season, just a tad bit...

but now? I don't get it. If you see the dark clouds of Mordor covering NE ohio, and orks running around stinking up Ohio,

I'm not seein it.

Dont think Ive said that....in fact, Ive been very complimentary of this years draft.....I say it like I see it, while you say the same mantra every year, without any realistic thought process to the reality of the team we are fielding.....to each his own, I guess.....

But, thinking "honesty" is the sign of a bad fan is a mistake....blindly following ANYTHING or anyone, w/o an objective eye toward things that need improvement is a good way to fail and to be let down....unrealistic expectations are not for realists....sorry

I see the Browns finally having a team assembled, and upgraded to serious competitive, ass kicking level.

You see that every year Cal.....shall we revisit last preseason?

and I see a DC that won't pussy-foot around with passive defense.

You see that every year too Cal.....even the year you turned on Oneill 8 games after you called him the best....

QB is a ? but I can live with that just fine, .

Of course you can....you accept losing.....you've already proven and said that....

.I was a huge Wentz guy, but they couldn't have gotten Wentz, and still remade this football team into a strong roster across the board...

except for qb...we'll see how that goes.

Well, according to you, it will be a winning - ass kicking - competitive team.....so no worries

The Browns will kick pittspuke ass and will be 1-0 to start the season.

....that will win it's first game.....as per Cal.....

Every year I read this stuff, I can only think Gomer Pyle saying surprise surprise surprise.....

@calfoxwc said:

The Browns will kick pittspuke ass and will be 1-0 to start the season.

I hope you're right, I've got a bottle of bourbon on Sunday and a vacation day on Monday in case we open a can of whoop-ass.

@mudfly said:

Oh, come on, Mud. This has been just the calm before the Browns storm. I think when anyone looks at how much the last

draft and free agency signings will be dramatically changing the Browns' landscape - they are going to be a different,

as in, WINNING and ASSKICKING football team.

I'm just not seeing the despondency - I see a giant huge climb to a winning season. I don't get giving up, being down..

well, maybe in the middle-end of a losing season, just a tad bit...

but now? I don't get it. If you see the dark clouds of Mordor covering NE ohio, and orks running around stinking up Ohio,

I'm not seein it. I see the Browns finally having a team assembled, and upgraded to serious competitive, ass kicking level.

and I see a DC that won't pussy-foot around with passive defense. QB is a ? but I can live with that just fine, ...I was a huge

Wentz guy, but they couldn't have gotten Wentz, and still remade this football team into a strong roster across the board...

except for qb...we'll see how that goes.

The Browns will kick pittspuke ass and will be 1-0 to start the season.

Those exclamation point in substitution for the 'L's' in that lol appear to me to be some kind of refs' arms for touchdown. I don't really see the correlation between laughing out loud and touchdowns... but maybe something like-

Touchdown Cleveland Browns !o! Who's Laughing Now?

@calfoxwc said:

I have no issue with Canton.....close enough to us and a valid place.....Columbus?.....not so much....

And, yes Cal, the stadium was jammed.....hard to get a seat....the fans were rabid.....not any more.....

They have lost many....I know many.....apathy has gripped the city.....very few care.....this board has gone down to 10 regulars.....all are signs.....

I don't see the problem either way.... except there will be far better parking at the HOF village. The Browns

would see a LOT of new faces - and the elderly won't have to walk two or three blocks to watch

them practice. I haven't seen the "losing fans" thing. Maybe "overtness" is lost over time, but you let them

start winning, and overtness will be there. So many of us have hung in there, but we are so much older now.

Asskicking starts now. The Browns are back - take it to the bank.

And yes, I predict a winning season, like I do every freaking year, til I get it right.....

Just another perspective to consider.....

@mudfly said:

From a marketing stand point, it was probably not "lame brained". Columbus is essentially considered an "open" city, fan base wise. Split between Browns/Bengals (at least that is my perception....Any Columbusites on here can correct me).

The plan to move the TC to C-Bus would have been a marketing move to tip that scale far into the Browns side of the ledger.

But...lo and behold...I have a much better plan on how to tip Columbus over into the Browns camp:

Win....and kick the shit out of the Bengals every time you play them.

What a creative marketing concept...No?

would surely be able to make the HOF city tc.

@tour2ma said:

They would survive. How many days of training camp are actually open to the public...and on average how many attend those open sessions?

This training camp would only be there what? About a month, or 6 weeks? The rest of the time the Browns would be holding all their stuff in Berea: OTAs, mini camps etc.