I heard they have good trivia and paint gun fights there.

he was by no means the "foundation" of their 2005 SB winning team. He was the topper, like a weathervane on a barn.

I never said you don't need both. But the foundation starts with the QB. You build a team around the QB, NOT the other way around.

Not the reason I am moving to Vegas. You keep bringing up gambling. Vegas offers far more than that, especially to a man of science, and music.

You need both.

Look at the Colts. They have the best young QB that has supposedly come around in a decade. They have outstanding WRs....and supposedly decent RBs...with Frank Gore...a proven commodity and others.

What happened? They had such a lousy offensive line that every one of their skill players like went on the IR with bad injuries. The team could not do bo diddley.

So, yes, the offense revolves around the abilities of the skill players...until such time that those skill players can't function because they are having their asses handed to them because no on can block for them.

Now...do the Browns have both commodities? Both the skill players and the OL to allow to do their thing?

Certainly not. But as limited perhaps as our skill players may be....I would still like to have a quality OL that will allow them to show that skill...at whatever level it may be.

YOU wanted skill players....and from what I can see, the Browns have attempted...somewhat to give us those. QBs in the 2d and 3rd round the last two years...plus a trade for another.

A TE drafted in round one. 4 WRs taken last year...another picked up as a FA. A tandem or RBs they seem to have faith in.

Do WE have total faith in this group of skill players? Absolutely not.

But, at least, as I said, it seems to be the case that they will have a decent OL in front of them so that they can TRY at least to deliver their best.

Would I have like the last couple of drafts to go differently? You know it. I was all on Bosa and Trubisky's jocks. I think those would have been better choices for this team.

But I gotta to with what I got and only hope for the best with what is on the roster.

Then maybe instead of Vegas you should move to Utah. They don't gamble there.

Orion,

fair enough, to a point. Accepting the reality doesn't require buying into a fantasy. People think fans don't influence ownership, but they do. The constant buying into the importance of OL men, and all the other building bullshit has created a franchise in which fans think it unfair to expect wins.

I bitched that any executive would say that 2016 was not about winning. And looks, already people here are saying the same thing about 2017. Haslam has been cheap. We don't draft the top playmakers because we don't want to pay them. This formula is not working and it won't work. Until this team develops an understanding that its QB WR, TE, RB and THEN all the other shit, 1 - 19 seasons are headed our way.

We will soon see.

my Father always told me, dumb kids don't like to play with smart kids. Your voices of dissent confirm my Dad's wisdom.

Kizer away.....Kizer Away..............

Of course I know the answers. I don't let sports casters and the media form my opinions like most people do.

Look man, football is all about the QB, WRs, RBs, and TEs, everything else, while important....is much easier to come by. It truly is the 80/20 rule.

But the common man just never sees it and spends most of his life working for peanuts, idolizing those who have money, and scratching their balls wondering why none of the shit they believe in ever comes true.

The Browns will not be improved. They will be fundamentally as bad in 2017 as they were in 2016. You can't go into a fucking season with no clue as to who is going to lead the team. Training camp? That isn't going to show anyone, anything...other than WOW.....that guy is fast............that guy can catch........................ MEANINGLESS.

Make no mistake, this will be the absolute worst fucking year for this board because you jackoffs are convinced more than ever that the team is on the right path. Seriously, you guys won't fucking believe what you are about to experience. Just sit back, live your pretend, analytical bullshit, and then watch Ghoolie's real life experience put on yet another lesson.............the sad part? Next year there will again be a new team of jackoffs making the same mistakes............... and Tom Flugel will be on his knees, first in line to suck that dick...................

My Under 4.5 is as good as gold.

I don't gamble.

At this point in time...June...2017....that's all we got. That's the current reality. Take it or leave it....

Everything the Browns optimism is based on is " might pan out"...

We do not know that for sure yet.

The possibility DOES exist that Kessler will be ok. And that the rookie 1st round TE will be ok. And that a couple of WR's from last year (perhaps even Coleman) become ok. That in turn would help our RB's.

The possibility DOES exist.

We're going to have to wait around to find out...so we might as well be concerned with what we need to happen for the present. We can't change much now. We've gotta coach-up the guys we have and play football. We'll then discover who improved, who didn't, and create a wish list for the next round of upgrading.

I don't gamble.

No QB, No WRs, No Tes No RB = the rest of the shit the Browns have done means NOTHING.

Again, just, like, your opinion man.

You think you know the answers...but you don't know the answers.

Good thing you are moving to Vegas when you get back....then you can gamble all your money and win much much more because you believe your sports predictions will all come true.

Or not.

Awe...that's ok trollie. Knew ya didn't have a science background. Run away Lil boy...

Again, just, like, your opinion man.

You think you know the answers...but you don't know the answers.

Good thing you are moving to Vegas when you get back....then you can gamble all your money and win much much more because you believe your sports predictions will all come true.

Or not.

This is the time of my annual month-long trek to Eastern Europe, Ireland and Scotland. It is that time when I also take a 30 - 45 day hiatus from this circle jerk of a message board.

The good news is that you guys get to play nice, live in an unfettered world in which your beloved Browns are finally on the right track. Rejoice, cocksuckers. You can prance around and say shit like...........

• You can see it in their eyes
• Williams is going to have these guys fired up
• We finally have the FO package in place
• (Insert other horseshit)

The bad news of course is that your fucking stupidity is going to kick you so hard in the nuts you will wish you had a pussy.

You have the HC you love, You have the DC you love. You have the OL you have clamored for. You have a new black Tarkenton. You have no strength at WR, TE or RB and you maintain that you can pick up great players of these positions easily in FA.

So, dildoes, this IS exactly what you believe will build a great team.

With that said, Somewhere around 0-4 to 0-6 I will pop back in to LMAO@ all of you............. AND...........more interestingly, hear your explanations about how "while Ghoolie was right, we suck, we really are on the right track, but it is too early to expect this young team to win.

Here is what I will return to............................

• The QB situation will be fucked up beyond all recognition....Kizer a total flop, probably injured.
• The OL playing even worse than last years team.
• And exhausted, gassed, undisciplined D that gives up points and penalties like both are going out of syle.

Will Garrett be out for the season by then? I will be surprised if he makes it to game 3.

See you soon....by all means, start fabricating your excuses, course-corrections, and jackoff reasons why my accurate predictions are actually not accurate.

This is the time of my annual month-long trek to Eastern Europe, Ireland and Scotland. It is that time when I also take a 30 - 45 day hiatus from this circle jerk of a message board.

The good news is that you guys get to play nice, live in an unfettered world in which your beloved Browns are finally on the right track. Rejoice, cocksuckers. You can prance around and say shit like...........

• You can see it in their eyes
• Williams is going to have these guys fired up
• We finally have the FO package in place
• (Insert other horseshit)
• 

The bad news of course is that your fucking stupidity is going to kick you so hard in the nuts you will wish you had a pussy.

You have the HC you love, You have the DC you love. You have the OL you have clamored for. You have a new black Tarkenton. You have no strength at WR, TE or RB and you maintain that you can pick up great players of these positions easily in FA.

So, dildoes, this IS exactly what you believe will build a great team.

With that said, Somewhere around 0-4 to 0-6 I will pop back in to LMAO@ all of you............. AND...........more interestingly, hear your explanations about how "while Ghoolie was right, we suck, we really are on the right track, but it is too early to expect this young team to win.

Here is what I will return to............................

• The QB situation will be fucked up beyond all recognition....Kizer a total flop, probably injured.
• The OL playing even worse than last years team.
• And exhausted, gassed, undisciplined D that gives up points and penalties like both are going out of syle.

Will Garrett be out for the season by then? I will be surprised if he makes it to game 3.

See you soon....by all means, start fabricating your excuses, course-corrections, and jackoff reasons why my accurate predictions are actually not accurate.