@ghoolie said:

Ben does not hold the ball because he is slow thinking, He holds the ball when his options are dumb ones.

Kizer holds on to the ball too long because that's the kind of QB he is. If he gets guys open, he can zing the ball, but routinely releasing the ball before the reciever appears open? That is what I mean by a quick release. Ben is not Marino or Fouts, for sure. Running to buy time is indeed a component of his game. However, it is a tool he doesn't instinctively use every time he drops back to pass. A black Tarkenton like Kizer however, does have running in the forefront of his mind as soon he takes the snap. 

Ben's ability to extend the play indeed exposes him to unnecessary hits, however,  Kizer's inability to get rid of the ball makes him much more likely to get pasted and injured.

I did not ascribe a reason for Ben holding on, but seems to me he and Kizer do so for the very same reason... waiting for a receiver to come open.

Now I can't argue they are both equally adept at finding an open one... slight experiential discrepancy... but DeShon did show an ability to see and deliver into a couple pretty tight windows.

@the-gipper said:

You don't have a freeking clue if that is the way he is going to be..or if he does not have that "wherewithal".  He is a fucking rookie.  A 20 year old rookie.

You are either just wild ass speculating about that or wishing it to be so.  He looks every bit as good or better at doing those sorts of things BR did when he was a rookie. 

Talk about smoking dope............lol

@wargograw said:

I hear they expect recruits to be accomplished Marines after one week of recruit training. Oh wait. They give them time?! No way!

You're an idiot.

maybe you should find that jackass rb we had yrs ago...what was the fuckheads name...hillis...the fucker who faked an injury and was caught laughing on the sidelines...MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO SUCK HIS COCK....

@ghoolie said:

I am agreeing with you, Ben's instincts are to extend the play when there is no play. But he doesn't abandon the play. Kizer does not have that wherewithal. Don't be surprised to see Kizer get injured pretty good. 

You don't have a freeking clue if that is the way he is going to be..or if he does not have that "wherewithal".  He is a fucking rookie.  A 20 year old rookie.

You are either just wild ass speculating about that or wishing it to be so.  He looks every bit as good or better at doing those sorts of things BR did when he was a rookie. 

@hempman said:

Because they are going to go through a lot of them this season.

Again, absolutely no explanation.  (I am beginning to think that you really ARE a white punk on dope).  Have some more Doritos.

@tour2ma said:

I agree with your conclusion... but not your fact-free rationale. For example... Ben has a quick release, but he also holds the ball. Thus all the plays where D-players end up hanging all over him. You do understand that there is a difference?

I don't see a 1999 repeat. In fact, I would not be shocked if we jumped out to an early lead... probably due to a turnover.... probably of the "under-pressure-Ben-threw-one-up-for-grabs" variety.

But in the end only one team on the field currently knows how to win... especially when games are close.

Ben does not hold the ball because he is slow thinking, He holds the ball when his options are dumb ones.

Kizer holds on to the ball too long because that's the kind of QB he is. If he gets guys open, he can zing the ball, but routinely releasing the ball before the reciever appears open? That is what I mean by a quick release. Ben is not Marino or Fouts, for sure. Running to buy time is indeed a component of his game. However, it is a tool he doesn't instinctively use every time he drops back to pass. A black Tarkenton like Kizer however, does have running in the forefront of his mind as soon he takes the snap. 

Ben's ability to extend the play indeed exposes him to unnecessary hits, however,  Kizer's inability to get rid of the ball makes him much more likely to get pasted and injured.

@the-gipper said:

I don't think we really know what Kizer's traits are going to be longer term, as far as holding the ball or being able to get rid of it quickly...or whatever. Kizer will, initially do both what BR does....move to find openings...but also he will take off with the ball frequently. (perhaps too frequently).  I mean...he will be a rookie and he will just be developing.

And I disagree totally that "running to buy time" is not something BR does instinctively.  It absolutely is.  No, not EVERY time he drops back...but, a very high percentage of times.   It may be less now that he is older and hobbled...but it is still very much his instinct to do so...at least it has been his whole career.

I am agreeing with you, Ben's instincts are to extend the play when there is no play. But he doesn't abandon the play. Kizer does not have that wherewithal. Don't be surprised to see Kizer get injured pretty good. 

@the-gipper said:

Yea?   And what is that?   

That is like me saying:   "There is a reason that Hempman makes wild ass unsubstantiated statements"     and then not explaining what those reasons are.

(but, in my case I will explain:  it is because he is one of these:

Because they are going to go through a lot of them this season.

@hempman said:

There is a reason why the Browns have all these QBs on the roster.

Yea?   And what is that?   

That is like me saying:   "There is a reason that Hempman makes wild ass unsubstantiated statements"     and then not explaining what those reasons are.

(but, in my case I will explain:  it is because he is one of these:

@ghoolie said:

Ben does not hold the ball because he is slow thinking, He holds the ball when his options are dumb ones.

Kizer holds on to the ball too long because that's the kind of QB he is. If he gets guys open, he can zing the ball, but routinely releasing the ball before the reciever appears open? That is what I mean by a quick release. Ben is not Marino or Fouts, for sure. Running to buy time is indeed a component of his game. However, it is a tool he doesn't instinctively use every time he drops back to pass. A black Tarkenton like Kizer however, does have running in the forefront of his mind as soon he takes the snap. 

Ben's ability to extend the play indeed exposes him to unnecessary hits, however,  Kizer's inability to get rid of the ball makes him much more likely to get pasted and injured.

I don't think we really know what Kizer's traits are going to be longer term, as far as holding the ball or being able to get rid of it quickly...or whatever. Kizer will, initially do both what BR does....move to find openings...but also he will take off with the ball frequently. (perhaps too frequently).  I mean...he will be a rookie and he will just be developing.

And I disagree totally that "running to buy time" is not something BR does instinctively.  It absolutely is.  No, not EVERY time he drops back...but, a very high percentage of times.   It may be less now that he is older and hobbled...but it is still very much his instinct to do so...at least it has been his whole career.

@tour2ma said:

I agree with your conclusion... but not your fact-free rationale. For example... Ben has a quick release, but he also holds the ball. Thus all the plays where D-players end up hanging all over him. You do understand that there is a difference?

I don't see a 1999 repeat. In fact, I would not be shocked if we jumped out to an early lead... probably due to a turnover.... probably of the "under-pressure-Ben-threw-one-up-for-grabs" variety.

But in the end only one team on the field currently knows how to win... especially when games are close.

Ben does not hold the ball because he is slow thinking, He holds the ball when his options are dumb ones.

Kizer holds on to the ball too long because that's the kind of QB he is. If he gets guys open, he can zing the ball, but routinely releasing the ball before the reciever appears open? That is what I mean by a quick release. Ben is not Marino or Fouts, for sure. Running to buy time is indeed a component of his game. However, it is a tool he doesn't instinctively use every time he drops back to pass. A black Tarkenton like Kizer however, does have running in the forefront of his mind as soon he takes the snap. 

Ben's ability to extend the play indeed exposes him to unnecessary hits, however,  Kizer's inability to get rid of the ball makes him much more likely to get pasted and injured.

@ghoolie said:

Dude, you just agreed with me in saying the chance of the Browns winning is very slim.

I agree with your conclusion... but not your fact-free rationale. For example... Ben has a quick release, but he also holds the ball. Thus all the plays where D-players end up hanging all over him. You do understand that there is a difference?

I don't see a 1999 repeat. In fact, I would not be shocked if we jumped out to an early lead... probably due to a turnover.... probably of the "under-pressure-Ben-threw-one-up-for-grabs" variety.

But in the end only one team on the field currently knows how to win... especially when games are close.

@ghoolie said:

So what you are saying is that the only way for the Browns to win, is if Ben gets hurt? Dude, you just agreed with me in saying the chance of the Browns winning is very slim.

However, do you not agree that the odds of Kizer getting fucked up are far greater than Ben getting hurt?

• Ben has a quick release and is hard to get to.
• Black Tarkenton is a run-first QB and is more likely to get into a bad collision than Ben
• We don't have a pass rush. We have Garrett who is good at getting close, but not actually hitting the QB
• The Steelers have better RBs, WRs, TEs and play calling/time management

The problem with the Browns chances this year is exemplified by your comments. You can't talk about burning the D with our great receivers and RB, but instead fantasize about injuring Ben.

Weird. 

Ben is a great QB and knocking him out of the game would certainly give the Browns a better chance to win. You don't think their chances would be better against Landry Jones?

What is it about that that you disagree with? But certainly you are right about running QBs being more prone to be hurt.  But BR is also somewhat of a "running QB"....or at least he used to be.  A different kind of "runner"...he would scramble around trying to find an opening...though he does not try to run with the ball.  It is still his instincts to do that...and that is what could get him hurt. It has in the past....but now his skills at doing that are not what they once were.

The Browns actual running game is likely on par with the Steelers....though Bell's contribution in the pass game makes him a more effective weapon that what the Browns have. 

Steelers obviously have better WRs...just by having Brown in the game.  Not sure about the TEs....though likely since all the Browns TEs are very young and fairly inexperienced.

@jcam222 said:

Knock Pig Pen out of the game , stuff a rusty whiney Bell and we kick their ass. It could easily happen. 

So what you are saying is that the only way for the Browns to win, is if Ben gets hurt? Dude, you just agreed with me in saying the chance of the Browns winning is very slim.

However, do you not agree that the odds of Kizer getting fucked up are far greater than Ben getting hurt?

• Ben has a quick release and is hard to get to.
• Black Tarkenton is a run-first QB and is more likely to get into a bad collision than Ben
• We don't have a pass rush. We have Garrett who is good at getting close, but not actually hitting the QB
• The Steelers have better RBs, WRs, TEs and play calling/time management

The problem with the Browns chances this year is exemplified by your comments. You can't talk about burning the D with our great receivers and RB, but instead fantasize about injuring Ben.

Weird. 

@fairhooker11 said:

I think gipper writes better from a laptop instead of a phone.... or the enter button is too twitchy?

just a hunch

Voice recognition issues I don't actually write on my phoneVoice recognition issues I don't actually write on my phone

just a hunch

@canton-mike said:

Don't forget to throw deep on Haden.  

Mike

LOL!

@jcam222 said:

Knock Pig Pen out of the game , stuff a rusty whiney Bell and we kick their ass. It could easily happen. 

Don't forget to throw deep on Haden.  

Mike

@orion said:

Lemme see.  We are coming off of a one win season.  We're playing the division champs.  And we have a rookie 2nd round pick QB starting for us.

My prediction is that we lose the game.

I'm a genius because I came to that conclusion right?  Or am I just a realist?  

Knock Pig Pen out of the game , stuff a rusty whiney Bell and we kick their ass. It could easily happen. 

My prediction is that we lose the game.

I'm a genius because I came to that conclusion right?  Or am I just a realist?