@texasag1969 said:

Bingo! Winner winner chicken dinner!

Insight that deep does not come that cheap...

@the-gipper said:

And yet, to me, still....the reason the Browns lost that game was because of their poor defensive coverage of T.Y. Hilton.

Bingo! Winner winner chicken dinner!

@dutch-oven said:

It's a lack of talent.

In a nutshell, this is my feelings as well.

@dutch-oven said:

The "Back In My Day" game is strong today.

You know what the #1 reason the Browns have been miserable since '99? It isn't a lack of heart, determination, effort, or pride.

It's a lack of talent.

And wasting draft picks continuously on major, major busts....which, of course is one of the sources of your point as to why this team has had no talent.

And to supplement...I DO think we have had some very poor coaching of the talent we had.  Bad talent+ bad coaching +  suckage.

You know what the #1 reason the Browns have been miserable since '99? It isn't a lack of heart, determination, effort, or pride.

It's a lack of talent.

@atenears said:

Ugh ... didn't realize that ... speechless.

The NFL isn't THAT great. No one is THAT dominate. No Division is not THAT dominate. Our Division is not THAT dominate. Our Schedule is not THAT dominate. 

Agree....this division is not that good.  I mean, clearly....when we have 2 0-3 teams in it.  Plus....a 44-7 loss to the Jags?  And a loss to the Bears?  Someone will win it....maybe the winner of the game Sunday Rats vs. Squibs.......but that won't mean much in the long hall..  Do not see more than one team coming out of the AFCN.

@atenears said:

I've been leaning toward blaming Kizer somehow and perhaps him not throwing a catchable ball ... that is until I attended a high school game last night that had a mammoth QB at the helm. This kid was one of the biggest, broadest kids on the field on either side of the ball and he played QB. He threw 90% of his passes with no touch on the ball. After being off the mark on his first few throws (each time I've watched him play), he threw a few receivers open and he threw many hard passes with the nose down that receivers went down and stabbed. My point is, that this HUGE QB hasn't fully honed his touch yet and these little dime-a-dozen 155-lb WR's who might play in a few backyard Turkey Bowls with their neighborhood friends after high school, adapted to one another, so I'm off the "catchable ball" whitchhunt.

I believe it's a mentality. I just read in another thread where a couple of posters here were mocking if Jim Brown could play in this era. They sighted his size and the size of would-be tacklers of the era. What they failed to measure was Jim Browns heart and determination. A stat and measure not even worth dissecting with this current Browns franchise since their return in 1999. It is a lack on concentration, a lack of pride, a lack of accountability, a lack of leadership. What would Manning do with such drops in a game? What would Farve do? What would Belichick do? ... there's your answer. High School kids have more pride.

Besides....look at Jim Browns size:  6'2   232 lbs.   Bigger than most RBs that play today.  Jim Brown could play and dominate in this area....for the reasons you mention and not just his measurements.

@mudfly said:

Interesting stat.....They haven't even had the lead in a game yet......not once.....at this time last year, that 1-15 team had already lead 5 times....

Ugh ... didn't realize that ... speechless.

The NFL isn't THAT great. No one is THAT dominate. No Division is not THAT dominate. Our Division is not THAT dominate. Our Schedule is not THAT dominate. 

@sd_tom said:

They've still had a chance to win each game so far, which is amazing considering they've looked like garbage. every other play

Interesting stat.....They haven't even had the lead in a game yet......not once.....at this time last year, that 1-15 team had already lead 5 times....

@sd_tom said:

They've still had a chance to win each game so far, which is amazing considering they've looked like garbage. Kizer was never close to being ready, and he'll get much better as the year progresses, but why on earth is he throwing the ball 40+ times a game? There is no "commitment to run the ball" as Hue promised. Add in the fact that penalties and drops often kill any early momentum, and it's not looking good for them unless something changes.

Nobody expected a playoff team this year, but it's been brutal to watch an entire WR roster drop pass after pass, or get flagged every other play

Four offensive pass interference penalties in one game was almost impressive, in a sadistic way.

Nobody expected a playoff team this year, but it's been brutal to watch an entire WR roster drop pass after pass, or get flagged every other play

@the-gipper said:

And yet, to me, still....the reason the Browns lost that game was because of their poor defensive coverage of T.Y. Hilton.

No arguments here, the first half defense of the Browns was an embarrassment. I'm glad they made the proper adjustments at the half, but it was too late by then. 

@jcam222 said:

Is this on our receivers?  Are they literally the least competent in all the NFL?? Is this the case or does Kizer not throw a "catchable ball"? I will say he seems to throw the short passes like they are meant to penetrate concrete. What say you experts? 

I've been leaning toward blaming Kizer somehow and perhaps him not throwing a catchable ball ... that is until I attended a high school game last night that had a mammoth QB at the helm. This kid was one of the biggest, broadest kids on the field on either side of the ball and he played QB. He threw 90% of his passes with no touch on the ball. After being off the mark on his first few throws (each time I've watched him play), he threw a few receivers open and he threw many hard passes with the nose down that receivers went down and stabbed. My point is, that this HUGE QB hasn't fully honed his touch yet and these little dime-a-dozen 155-lb WR's who might play in a few backyard Turkey Bowls with their neighborhood friends after high school, adapted to one another, so I'm off the "catchable ball" whitchhunt.

I believe it's a mentality. I just read in another thread where a couple of posters here were mocking if Jim Brown could play in this era. They sighted his size and the size of would-be tacklers of the era. What they failed to measure was Jim Browns heart and determination. A stat and measure not even worth dissecting with this current Browns franchise since their return in 1999. It is a lack on concentration, a lack of pride, a lack of accountability, a lack of leadership. What would Manning do with such drops in a game? What would Farve do? What would Belichick do? ... there's your answer. High School kids have more pride.

@roycerolls said:

Penalties+underwhelming run game+dropped passes=3 and long and a stagnant offense. I don't know the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that the Browns average yards to gain on 3rd down is worst in the league. Add in the fact that the Browns haven't held a lead all season.... teams that are always playing from behind and can't stay on schedule offensively rarely run the ball. 

At at this point we can only hope that the youngest team in the league can grow up a bit as the season wears on. 

Edit: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

Cleveland is 31st in 3rd down conversion % at 27% a figure that is almost 10 percentage points lower than last years team. this team will struggle until they find a way to limit the self-inflicted wounds. 

And yet, to me, still....the reason the Browns lost that game was because of their poor defensive coverage of T.Y. Hilton.

@warriorsrpussies said:

 Also why the fuck are we throwing the ball 50 times a game, like WTF!

Penalties+underwhelming run game+dropped passes=3 and long and a stagnant offense. I don't know the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that the Browns average yards to gain on 3rd down is worst in the league. Add in the fact that the Browns haven't held a lead all season.... teams that are always playing from behind and can't stay on schedule offensively rarely run the ball. 

At at this point we can only hope that the youngest team in the league can grow up a bit as the season wears on. 

Edit: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

Cleveland is 31st in 3rd down conversion % at 27% a figure that is almost 10 percentage points lower than last years team. this team will struggle until they find a way to limit the self-inflicted wounds. 

@gumby73 said:

Booger McFarland is also the guy that told the football world that Garrett takes plays off..That's not a booger..That's a brain Cell..McFarland also played at Louisiana State..Your stooping to "The Waterboy" level with McFarland 

Garrett did take plays off....in college.   That was accurate. And I will still reserve judgment on Garrett until he actually plays in some real NFL games...and not in preseason.

Though off off the cuff atrociously wrong about Barkley. Best since Barry Sanders? Is Barry Sanders even the best since Barry Sanders?

@the-gipper said:

There was one guy...Booger McFarland who said the Barkley is the best RB prospect to come along since Barry Sanders. 

Booger McFarland is also the guy that told the football world that Garrett takes plays off..That's not a booger..That's a brain Cell..McFarland also played at Louisiana State..Your stooping to "The Waterboy" level with McFarland 

@the-gipper said:

If it is analytic driven...then I CAN very well believe that they would draft Barkley.  If  the analytics definitely point to him being a top asset, you better ass believe that our FO would consider him.

I just would hope that he would not become like so many other top Penn St. RBs.   For a while there several were being picked high in the draft:  Curtis Enis, Blair Thomas, Kijana Carter.  All complete busts.   But if he turned out to be like Lydell Mitchell or Franco Harris (without the cowardly running out of bounds constantly for which Jim Brown criticized him).  That would be OK.

Would not many look at him like another Ezekiel Elliott? 

There was one guy...Booger McFarland who said the Barkley is the best RB prospect to come along since Barry Sanders. 

Analytics is about maximizing value.

Using a top 5 pick overall on the position with easily the shortest shelf life would in no way be an analytics-driven move.

@texasag1969 said:

Just watch the game for the last 12 minutes or so. I could see a QB really running an offense and trying to get us back in the game. Had we had a decent clock manager and a reasonable onside kick, this could have ended very differently.

Yes, both onside kick attempts were pretty lame....and never had a chance to be successful.  Rookie kicker. Maybe like our other rookies we can hope he will get better.

@tour2ma said:

Saw the same thing live... more surveying, if not actual progressions... some touch here and there... a better "time to bail" clock. While still not the norm.... still not the go to modes... I saw more of them.

And that's a good thing.

#BabySteps

Just watch the game for the last 12 minutes or so. I could see a QB really running an offense and trying to get us back in the game. Had we had a decent clock manager and a reasonable onside kick, this could have ended very differently.