In his journal, Columbus didn’t mince words about his intentions after meeting the Arawak natives in the Bahamas in 1492. He described the encounter thusly: “They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things ... They willingly traded everything they owned ... They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features .... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane. ... They would make fine servants. ... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.” Columbus would add: “As soon as I arrived in the Indies, on the first Island which I found, I took some of the natives by force in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts.”

now, ur narrative about "savages" is over. If u want to read cool stories about the commanche, a tribe of indians living thousands of miles to the north, go ahead. But they are irrelevant to the discussion about columbus. Case closed ur dismissed

@calfoxwc said:

why bother? I think you don't open links, Seems that you just want to "smart off" and be a troll that makes no sense.

ignorance works for you - with the woodpecker.

No i opened the links u shitstain on common sense. Thats how i know they're full of Sheet. When i said u linked an article that had no verifiable author, how would i know that u senile old codger? I open ur links to verify what i oretty much already know.......that its YOU who dont actually read ur links. U googled the phrase "native americans were savages", not "were bative americans savages" because that could return u uncomfortable links that might challenge ur personal narrative.

ive probably read twice as many libks of urs than uve actually bothered to read. Ivr caught u link spamming a google page to links that directly refute ur assertion. Ur an idiot. Srsly. 

@mld-woody said:

Jesus Christ you've gone downhill

Ahh that one never gets old huh?

I don't "think he was a bad guy". We know he was basically a monster. Was he a great navigator? Cuz he didn't get where he wanted to go. It's not about not being what we consider politically correct today. It's about what's objectively awful.

 Just like the natives. The false narrative is that they are noble and pure. Because you saw it in a movie or something. Minorities are always Noble and pure.

And some Shmucking soda isn't the same as a god damn National holiday.

Nor are rivers and cities and states and Parks. So what? But you wouldn't be bothered buy a bottle of Hitler Cola? Pol Pot stickers at the Chinese restaurant? 

Seriously Steve. Idk if it is Trump or what, but you've become much more of an idiot over the past year or so. Even the arguments you're trying to make have big holes in logic.

 What in the world does Trump have to do with this issue besides the fact that you and your new master are obsessed?

I'm over going round and round. You're changing the subject from Columbus because for that's apparently a right wing cause now only because liberals want it.

 Close enough. I'm okay with keeping Columbus Day as it is. But I understand that now it's hip to be outraged. You are mad when it happens here but not when it happens there. We get it. Everybody gets it.

We already had enough idiot posters blindly following nothing more than a political party, and now you're one as well. No reason in trying to even engage you. 

 Probably not, especially if your only response is being against one or the other political party. Like you used to complain about others here hating everything Obammy did. But congratulations on at least posting something with more than one sentence.

But since you insist on complaining about changing over a period of time you might have seemed a little bit smarter when Heck was your savior instead of Cleve.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Not at all. You're a hypocrite. Cleve is a hypocrite and an idiot. You don't want Columbus honored because you think he was a bad guy. You have no problem with Lake Mohawk. Or Cherokee Red soda pop.

So Columbus actually was a great Navigator whether or not he discovered America. And I understand some of you people want to sanitize the history books of anybody that wasn't politically correct four or five hundred years ago. Fair enough if that's what you decide though then we shouldn't change those things to honor tribes who are equally barbaric. Whether or not you saw a movie where they were cool.

WSS

Jesus Christ you've gone downhill

I don't "think he was a bad guy". We know he was basically a monster. Was he a great navigator? Cuz he didn't get where he wanted to go. It's not about not being what we consider politically correct today. It's about what's objectively awful.

And some Shmucking soda isn't the same as a god damn National holiday.

Seriously Steve. Idk if it is Trump or what, but you've become much more of an idiot over the past year or so. Even the arguments you're trying to make have big holes in logic.

I'm over going round and round. You're changing the subject from Columbus because for that's apparently a right wing cause now only because liberals want it. We already had enough idiot posters blindly following nothing more than a political party, and now you're one as well. No reason in trying to even engage you. 

@clevfan4life said:

The content is baseless. I provided letters about the native americans from fuukking columbis himsrlf and fukking ngr benjamin fukking franklin........and from u we get articles with no credible author and what amounts to essentially an opinion thread of rando's on the internet.

Ur "content" is therefore dismissed on all counts. If ur too lazy to properly research a topic and educate urself, ur opinions are nonsensical and wirthy of immediate dissmissal. 

why bother? I think you don't open links, Seems that you just want to "smart off" and be a troll that makes no sense.

ignorance works for you - with the woodpecker.

WSS

@calfoxwc said:

meaning you can't refute the content and are just a waste of forum time.

The content is baseless. I provided letters about the native americans from fuukking columbis himsrlf and fukking ngr benjamin fukking franklin........and from u we get articles with no credible author and what amounts to essentially an opinion thread of rando's on the internet.

Ur "content" is therefore dismissed on all counts. If ur too lazy to properly research a topic and educate urself, ur opinions are nonsensical and wirthy of immediate dissmissal. 

@calfoxwc said:

way too ignorant, that is.

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/the_most_violent_era_in_america_was_before_europeans_arrived-141847

https://www.quora.com/Was-North-America-a-peaceful-Native-American-utopia-before-the-white-man-arrived

case closed. STFU

Ur first link has no author, it says "news staff" where the author is. First link is summarily dismissed. 2nd link is from quora which posts a topic and lets people fill in their iwn comments from what it looks like. 2nd link also demonstrably without merit. Ur counterarguments are therefore null and void. Ur thoughts and opinions on this subject are hereby dismissed as mindless ill conceived rubbish. Ur are dismissed

@clevfan4life said:

Ur not going to create an equivalency between a man who had babies smashed over rocks and ONE tribe of indians who went medieval at the end of their time. Im also not going to let you broad stroke north american indians with the people columbus encountered in the carribean. I know ur an idiot, dotard and a moron and ur not coming off that position if ur life deoended on it......but im not letting u muddy up an issue thats pretty clear.

Columbus was a sexual predator who sent girls and boys as young as 9 back to spain to be sex slaves in king ferdinands court. No amount of scalping done by the commanche can equate to what columbus did in an entirely different part of of the hemisphere.

furthermore, as to ur point that if we dont want to honor columbus we shouldnt honor native americans either cause scalped a ngr or two.......fine. Then ill be expecting some form of participation from u, west side stevie...in next years opening day protests against the cleveland INDIANS!! Some native americans have been pushing for an abolition to all these "supposed" honorrific gestures toward indian culture like the washington redskins etc, etc. Nice corner u backed urself into stevie

Again you are mistaken poor little Dullard. I could give a fu ck about political correctness in the first place.

Columbus Day is fine with me. Washington's birthday statues of Robert E Lee Oktoberfest st. Patrick's Day...

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Not at all. You're a hypocrite. Cleve is a hypocrite and an idiot. You don't want Columbus honored because you think he was a bad guy. You have no problem with Lake Mohawk. Or Cherokee Red soda pop.

So Columbus actually was a great Navigator whether or not he discovered America. And I understand some of you people want to sanitize the history books of anybody that wasn't politically correct four or five hundred years ago. Fair enough if that's what you decide though then we shouldn't change those things to honor tribes who are equally barbaric. Whether or not you saw a movie where they were cool.

WSS

Ur not going to create an equivalency between a man who had babies smashed over rocks and ONE tribe of indians who went medieval at the end of their time. Im also not going to let you broad stroke north american indians with the people columbus encountered in the carribean. I know ur an idiot, dotard and a moron and ur not coming off that position if ur life deoended on it......but im not letting u muddy up an issue thats pretty clear.

Columbus was a sexual predator who sent girls and boys as young as 9 back to spain to be sex slaves in king ferdinands court. No amount of scalping done by the commanche can equate to what columbus did in an entirely different part of of the hemisphere.

furthermore, as to ur point that if we dont want to honor columbus we shouldnt honor native americans either cause scalped a ngr or two.......fine. Then ill be expecting some form of participation from u, west side stevie...in next years opening day protests against the cleveland INDIANS!! Some native americans have been pushing for an abolition to all these "supposed" honorrific gestures toward indian culture like the washington redskins etc, etc. Nice corner u backed urself into stevie

@mld-woody said:

I'm not trying to defend them. This thread was about Columbus. You've changed the subject for reasons I've already described above. 

I am not calling them all heroic. I'm not writing a false history or whatever else you're going on about. You're clearly just flailing around as much as you can to get off of the subject...

Not at all. You're a hypocrite. Cleve is a hypocrite and an idiot. You don't want Columbus honored because you think he was a bad guy. You have no problem with Lake Mohawk. Or Cherokee Red soda pop.

So Columbus actually was a great Navigator whether or not he discovered America. And I understand some of you people want to sanitize the history books of anybody that wasn't politically correct four or five hundred years ago. Fair enough if that's what you decide though then we shouldn't change those things to honor tribes who are equally barbaric. Whether or not you saw a movie where they were cool.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

And you can't defend Native Americans. Brutal Savages like so many other humans on the Earth throughout history. But you've written a complete false history of them because of your animosity toward the establishment or white people or whatever. There has been torture murder had brutality bye every group you might consider heroic through the ages. We make up a complete fake narrative.

WSS

I'm not trying to defend them. This thread was about Columbus. You've changed the subject for reasons I've already described above. 

I am not calling them all heroic. I'm not writing a false history or whatever else you're going on about. You're clearly just flailing around as much as you can to get off of the subject...

@calfoxwc said:

 those ignorant asses don't want to know history, it's all about a viewpoint that doesn't exist elsewhere, make them

FEEL elite.

They hate facts:

(warning - description of sick torture by American Indians...)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396760/How-Comanche-Indians-butchered-babies-roasted-enemies-alive.html

We already addressed this Sheet u dotard. Jesus Shmuck, this is about commanche's. Multiple points to be made here IF this Sheet is even true....thats just one tribe of indians. And north american indians. NOT THE SAME PEOPLE COLUMBUS ENCOUNTERED you stupid twat flap. And furthermore the north american indians that the early settlers encountered, like the people franklin wrote about....were not commanches nor did they do stuff like that. 

Once war was declared on all of em, you cant hold anything they did against them. They were fighting for their cery existence against AN INVADER. The white man was the invadet and aggressor, thats an indisputable FACT

@diehardbrownsfan said:

The Injuns were savages, who the modern goody two shoe fags like to put on a pedestal. 

 those ignorant asses don't want to know history, it's all about a viewpoint that doesn't exist elsewhere, make them

FEEL elite.

They hate facts:

(warning - description of sick torture by American Indians...)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396760/How-Comanche-Indians-butchered-babies-roasted-enemies-alive.html

@clevfan4life said:

What false history had woody written about the native americans? What they did once war was declared on them is of zero consequence. White people clearly documented the kind of people they encountered when they came here. They werent no savages. Ive furnished letters from both franklin and columbus about the people they encountered. Case closef

way too ignorant, that is.

http://www.science20.com/news_articles/the_most_violent_era_in_america_was_before_europeans_arrived-141847

https://www.quora.com/Was-North-America-a-peaceful-Native-American-utopia-before-the-white-man-arrived

case closed. STFU