Shoulda drafted him.. 

@the-gipper said:

You are absolutely right.   People...assholes...say...."if this guy goes to the Browns, he will be ruined".  I disagree....I think that it is the Browns that have been ruined by these guys coming here.  Hardly any of them have been worth a Sheet....here or anywhere else they have gone.

Oh....and the same is true for any of the coaches we have had here....at least since 1999.  Not one of them has gone on to a HC job anywhere else where they have had any success.  Crennell looked OK in KC for a while...then his teams did worse than the Browns.

I made pretty much the exact same point in another thread about why you need to build a team around a qb.  You can't name one qb out of the 20+ starters we've had that went to a "real franchise" or "team with better weapons" that was worth a damn. If it was just the system in Cleveland,  at least someone would've broken through elsewhere.  

Also,  you think a good young qb isn't going to make your team more appealing to good skill players and coaches? Somehow nobody in the fo gets it. 

Only hope is that Wentz and watson keep looking great.  Then it becomes impossible to ignore the media ridicule about how bad the fo messed up the draft twice in a row.  

@dutch-oven said:

Not one Browns QB since '99 left the Browns and ever did anything but be a backup. You think at least one of them would have escaped the horrible Browns coaches who held him down and became a viable starting QB in the NFL, but not one did.

You are absolutely right.   People...assholes...say...."if this guy goes to the Browns, he will be ruined".  I disagree....I think that it is the Browns that have been ruined by these guys coming here.  Hardly any of them have been worth a Sheet....here or anywhere else they have gone.

Oh....and the same is true for any of the coaches we have had here....at least since 1999.  Not one of them has gone on to a HC job anywhere else where they have had any success.  Crennell looked OK in KC for a while...then his teams did worse than the Browns.

@westside-steve said:

And equally interesting topic would be here's a list of the quarterbacks that would now be working for UPS had they been drafted by the Browns.

WSS

Since that is your idea....it is your task to do the research on it.

@medicineman said:

I believe some of the QB we did draft could play but when you have a new coach every year or every other year and each coach is telling you different things...................Maybe we had the right qb and the wrong coach. Our QB is not calling plays it is our moron of a coach.  Just about every teammate said Johnny Football was a great player, just about all of them, what we seen was him not being able to play the way he wanted to, a coach who told him he wanted him to take a sack instead of running the ball, I am not saying JM was the answer at all or Anderson or Quinn or Mcoy I am only saying at some point we have to blame the coach for well not being able to coach.

Not one Browns QB since '99 left the Browns and ever did anything but be a backup. You think at least one of them would have escaped the horrible Browns coaches who held him down and became a viable starting QB in the NFL, but not one did.

@wargograw said:

You're making my point. You'd rather just scrap everything and grab a new lottery ticket than actually try to build on what we're already doing and fix what's wrong. That's a grave error, in my opinion.

Every team that has lifted itself out of the dump has used traditional methods. Saints, Texans, Bucs, etc. No one had to reinvent the wheel but they likely had scouts who weren’t envious of Stevie Wonder’s eye for talent.

Instead of viewing it as a lottery ticket, why don’t you frame it like a girlfriend. So far she made dinner once a week but takes atrocious shits in the bathroom, refuses to give blow jobs, and wants you to spend all of your time with her. But if you just keep putting up with her she will turn it around. She promises.

@buck-the-frowns said:

I have often thought that they should fire everyone who is drafting for them and give the job to the janitor or the secretary, and have them pick the next highest rated player on CBS Draft Prospects or whatever, each time their turn comes to draft. If you have a team that has won 1game in a season and a half, whatever position is played by the next guy up, you probably have a need there. Probably would not turn out worse than they have been doing and might turn out better.

I understand that I'm a slapdick who posts on two message boards about the Browns and Indians. I have no clue how the salary cap works, who the LG on Eastern Kentucky is, or what a 3 gap DTackle is.

All than being said, I am 100% confident I could have drafted better in the first two drafts of the "new" Browns (1999/2000) with my Sporting News Draft Guides as my only tool. Those were atrocious.

@dutch-oven said:

The Force, an army of priests, all the luck of the Irish and the end of the world might be needed to turn this around.

It almost should be impossible for the Browns to have been this bad for this long.

I sometimes look back to the 1989 season opener... The Browns annihilated the Steelers 51-0 at Three Rivers Stadium. I'm pretty sure some Steelers fan, practiced in the fine art of voodoo, in a fit of rage put a curse on the Browns in retaliation. It would explain the last 28 years of Browns football.

I have often thought that they should fire everyone who is drafting for them and give the job to the janitor or the secretary, and have them pick the next highest rated player on CBS Draft Prospects or whatever, each time their turn comes to draft. If you have a team that has won 1game in a season and a half, whatever position is played by the next guy up, you probably have a need there. Probably would not turn out worse than they have been doing and might turn out better.

@buck-the-frowns said:

True dat, but regardless of how they got that way that was the closest comparison I could find. Maybe the Pirates, who stunk for 20 years.   

I wonder if the Browns front office would be too awful to be saved by the Force?

The Force, an army of priests, all the luck of the Irish and the end of the world might be needed to turn this around.

It almost should be impossible for the Browns to have been this bad for this long.

I sometimes look back to the 1989 season opener... The Browns annihilated the Steelers 51-0 at Three Rivers Stadium. I'm pretty sure some Steelers fan, practiced in the fine art of voodoo, in a fit of rage put a curse on the Browns in retaliation. It would explain the last 28 years of Browns football.

@dutch-oven said:

The '62 Mets were godawful because they were an expansion team.

The Browns expansion season was 18 years ago.

18.

Years.

Ago.

True dat, but regardless of how they got that way that was the closest comparison I could find. Maybe the Pirates, who stunk for 20 years.   

I wonder if the Browns front office would be too awful to be saved by the Force?

@texasag1969 said:

But the good news is the '62 Mets eventually became the 1969 Miracle Mets who won the WS. 

The '62 Mets were godawful because they were an expansion team.

The Browns expansion season was 18 years ago.

18.

Years.

Ago.

WSS

WSS

@wargograw said:

You're making my point. You'd rather just scrap everything and grab a new lottery ticket than actually try to build on what we're already doing and fix what's wrong. That's a grave error, in my opinion.

In fact if I were Jimmy I'd tell Hue that he needs to participate in hiring an OC because it is obvious he needs game day help so he can spend more time actually working as a HC and not a micromanager. Take the pressure off him and keep him away from deciding when it's time to yank a QB. There is no one in the bullpen who is going to do better, so leave him in no matter what save injury.

And why is it most of us knew ahead of time that this year was all about putting together a real defense and that the offense would struggle? We all knew the QB situation would be dire with a very difficult learning curve. This season should not be a surprise other than seeing some bad coaching errors. The man is under pressure and he needs help. The setup now brings on a coaching cave-in. Change the set-up before blowing up the team even yet again.

@wargograw said:

Again, 3 of those picks were 4th round plus. I'm disappointed none of them hit too, but it happens. If you're expecting the FO to hit on every single pick (as the statement "can't afford to squander shots at acquiring talent" would indicate), you're going to be disappointed. 

I'd rather spend 50% of the millions we'd waste buying out Hue and his staff on giving him what he needs to improve in this area. But I know most just want their pound of flesh and have no patience. 

A first rounder and yes, 3 4th round picks. All in the same draft. All misses. No one expects them to hit on every pick. But missing that badly all at the same position in the same draft has to be some sort of statistical anomaly or they could benefit from bringing in someone with football smarts. 

The coaches salary doesn't count against the cap. I could give a hot Sheet about whether or not Hue gets paid. Jimmy is already stealing money from the fans. 

As for patience, you are talking about a fan base that isn't asking for the world. The team went from 1-15 and is looking like it is going 0-16. I think a reasonable expectation of 3-4 wins in year two of a rebuild would be feasible. It shows progress in the win column. Not with Hue running the show.

@logicisforsquares said:

My concern is with the lack of WR help after having gone heavy on them during a draft. They turned into a ton of wasted picks on a team that can’t afford to squander shots at acquiring talent. This front office seems to have better luck sifting through practice squads for guys like Treggs than they do with actual picks. 

As for Hue, I don’t think he will pull some miracle turn around. If the guy isn’t pulling it together with a head on the block scenario unfolding, Hue never will.

Again, 3 of those picks were 4th round plus. I'm disappointed none of them hit too, but it happens. If you're expecting the FO to hit on every single pick (as the statement "can't afford to squander shots at acquiring talent" would indicate), you're going to be disappointed. 

I'd rather spend 50% of the millions we'd waste buying out Hue and his staff on giving him what he needs to improve in this area. But I know most just want their pound of flesh and have no patience. 

@logicisforsquares said:

My concern is with the lack of WR help after having gone heavy on them during a draft. They turned into a ton of wasted picks on a team that can’t afford to squander shots at acquiring talent. This front office seems to have better luck sifting through practice squads for guys like Treggs than they do with actual picks. 

As for Hue, I don’t think he will pull some miracle turn around. If the guy isn’t pulling it together with a head on the block scenario unfolding, Hue never will.

Exactly. The FO took a bunch of shots at WR hoping to find another Antonio Brown or Martavius Bryant in the lower rounds. & it looks like Coleman to date is pretty fragile. I have doubts he's ever going to be a legit #1 anyway. 

@wargograw said:

So your concern is with our lack of offensive talent even though it can move the ball ip the field often enough to make you mad about how Hue blows it? 

I don’t think you can have that one both ways. 

I get it. I just don’t see how your solution is “let’s scrap the whole thing and waste another two years learning another coach’s system” (and dump Greg Williams while we’re at it) as opposed to Hue just becoming a better RZ playcallef. 

My concern is with the lack of WR help after having gone heavy on them during a draft. They turned into a ton of wasted picks on a team that can’t afford to squander shots at acquiring talent. This front office seems to have better luck sifting through practice squads for guys like Treggs than they do with actual picks. 

As for Hue, I don’t think he will pull some miracle turn around. If the guy isn’t pulling it together with a head on the block scenario unfolding, Hue never will.