@unsympathetic said:

All worth reading and digesting

BB is apparently tired of dealing with Sashi.. because BB can no longer fleece Berea for whatever he proposes.

"The front office tries to win every deal" --- as opposed to the Jags, I presume?

Here's a better quote: "When it comes to the inner workings of the NFL, Schefter is the gold standard of reporting..." Well... maybe not so much better as funnier.

That said the main theme of the article, Sashi tried to win all deals rings true. He got great value out of most the trades he made.

@the-gipper said:

Though....riddle me this.   If our FO is supposedly playing "hardball" with other teams on trades....then how is it that they nearly got fleeced and stripped naked on this McCarron deal? They certainly would not have "won the deal" if that one had gone through.  (but maybe that is why it did not go through....Sashi saw the Browns being fleeced...and sabotaged the deal)

Easy... if the owner tells you to do the deal, you spend what it takes to get the deal done.

@d-bone said:

I didn't think this deserved its own thread, so I'll just drop it here...... Merry Christmas! 

There’s some speculation involved from Schefter so this shouldn’t be taken as absolute fact...

Thanks for the lump of coal... "beautiful clean coal"... lol

@nero said:

I don't think he is going to sign with anyone else but with SF. They already threated him like their future franchise quaterback not making him start from the beginning. 

It will come down to money.  But....it could still be a matter of him wanting to join a team that he thinks can win now.    And SF ain't that team....but Buffalo may be.

(but yes....the betting odds are in favor of SF.

@the-gipper said:

99.9% of it is that they didn't get the offer that they wanted from the Browns....and they didn't want him playing in the AFC. 

But...he is a free agent in the offseason.

What I would find fresh is if he would sign to play for the Bills or Jets.....both of whom may be looking for a new QB.  Particularly the Bills, who may feel that they are essentially a really good QB away from being very competitive.  They are in the playoff hunt now. That is a team that would not want to go with a rookie.  The Bills may very well be attractive to him....considering their competitiveness....and their apparent desire to go away from Tyrod Taylor (they did bench him for an unproven rookie...or was he a 2d year player?).

Garropolo to the Bills would be a good fit.   And it would be fitting for the Pats to have to face him, despite their desire to move him out of conference.

I don't think he is going to sign with anyone else but with SF. They already threated him like their future franchise quaterback not making him start from the beginning. 

But...he is a free agent in the offseason.

What I would find fresh is if he would sign to play for the Bills or Jets.....both of whom may be looking for a new QB.  Particularly the Bills, who may feel that they are essentially a really good QB away from being very competitive.  They are in the playoff hunt now. That is a team that would not want to go with a rookie.  The Bills may very well be attractive to him....considering their competitiveness....and their apparent desire to go away from Tyrod Taylor (they did bench him for an unproven rookie...or was he a 2d year player?).

Garropolo to the Bills would be a good fit.   And it would be fitting for the Pats to have to face him, despite their desire to move him out of conference.

@d-bone said:

I didn't think this deserved its own thread, so I'll just drop it here...... Merry Christmas! 

https://sports.yahoo.com/patriots-wanted-right-jimmy-garoppolo-didnt-trade-browns-145348406.html

Patriots wanted to 'do right' by Jimmy Garoppolo, so they didn't trade him to Browns

The part of the New England Patriots’ trade of Jimmy Garoppolo to the San Francisco 49ers that never made sense is the return. It seemed the Patriots could have gotten more. And it seemed weird the Cleveland Browns didn’t offer more to land him.

The 49ers acquired Garoppolo for a second-round pick. If you make Garoppolo eligible for the 2018 draft, he would be picked long before the second round started. And at the same time, the Browns were reportedly trying to trade a second- and third-round pick for AJ McCarron, who most people probably wouldn’t choose over Garoppolo. It doesn’t add up.

An interview from ESPN’s Adam Schefter offered one theory: The Patriots apparently didn’t want to send him to Cleveland, where quarterbacks’ careers die. Schefter said once the Patriots figured out a couple days before the deadline they had to trade Garoppolo (I’m not sure why it took that long; the writing was on the wall for a long time), they reached out to the 49ers even though the Browns had tried “over and over” in the spring to get Garoppolo and tried again in the fall but got nowhere.

“In this particular case, New England came to the realization before it made any calls, ‘Ok, unfortunately for us, as much as we want to keep Jimmy Garoppolo, we can’t,’ ” Schefter said on the “Murph & Mac” show on KNBR (h/t to 49ers Web Zone). “‘We have to trade him, and we’ve got to trade him here in the next two days. Where do we want to trade him? I like John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan. I think they’re going to do right by Jimmy G. Let’s call them.”

Schefter said the Patriots called the 49ers to pitch the trade and it took five minutes to get it done, which makes sense because the 49ers got a steal. San Francisco had to be shocked it fell in its lap like that. Schefter said he thinks the Patriots reached out to the 49ers because of Bill Belichick’s respect for Garoppolo, and his respect for 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan and their GM John Lynch.

And if that’s all true, the cold-hearted, bottom-line-only Patriots took less from the 49ers (if the Browns were going to trade a second and third for McCarron, you have to imagine they’d have done the same or more for Garoppolo), just to save Garoppolo from having to go to the Browns. Ouch.

There’s some speculation involved from Schefter so this shouldn’t be taken as absolute fact, but Schefter is plugged in and if that’s all true, the Patriots getting a relatively short return on Garoppolo then makes sense. Also, if it’s true, can you imagine the reaction in the Browns’ front office when news of the trade broke?

The Browns are in a good spot to get their quarterback. They’re going to get the first pick of next year’s draft with some intriguing prospects in the class. They fired old GM Sashi Brown and hired John Dorsey, who should be able to turn the picks Brown stockpiled into good players (now that we hear this Garoppolo story from Schefter, did the circumstances of the Garoppolo non-trade lead to owner Jimmy Haslam firing Brown?). The Browns didn’t land Garoppolo, but it could end up being fine. Maybe, if Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold or whoever the Browns choose is a superstar, maybe Cleveland is even better off for not landing Garoppolo.

But the whole story is a glimpse into how low Cleveland has sunk.

I don't buy that theory, I stated mind earlier in this thread. They didn't want to get into negotiations so they thought (correctly) that the 9ers were the easiest path.

https://sports.yahoo.com/patriots-wanted-right-jimmy-garoppolo-didnt-trade-browns-145348406.html

Patriots wanted to 'do right' by Jimmy Garoppolo, so they didn't trade him to Browns

The part of the New England Patriots’ trade of Jimmy Garoppolo to the San Francisco 49ers that never made sense is the return. It seemed the Patriots could have gotten more. And it seemed weird the Cleveland Browns didn’t offer more to land him.

The 49ers acquired Garoppolo for a second-round pick. If you make Garoppolo eligible for the 2018 draft, he would be picked long before the second round started. And at the same time, the Browns were reportedly trying to trade a second- and third-round pick for AJ McCarron, who most people probably wouldn’t choose over Garoppolo. It doesn’t add up.

An interview from ESPN’s Adam Schefter offered one theory: The Patriots apparently didn’t want to send him to Cleveland, where quarterbacks’ careers die. Schefter said once the Patriots figured out a couple days before the deadline they had to trade Garoppolo (I’m not sure why it took that long; the writing was on the wall for a long time), they reached out to the 49ers even though the Browns had tried “over and over” in the spring to get Garoppolo and tried again in the fall but got nowhere.

“In this particular case, New England came to the realization before it made any calls, ‘Ok, unfortunately for us, as much as we want to keep Jimmy Garoppolo, we can’t,’ ” Schefter said on the “Murph & Mac” show on KNBR (h/t to 49ers Web Zone). “‘We have to trade him, and we’ve got to trade him here in the next two days. Where do we want to trade him? I like John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan. I think they’re going to do right by Jimmy G. Let’s call them.”

Schefter said the Patriots called the 49ers to pitch the trade and it took five minutes to get it done, which makes sense because the 49ers got a steal. San Francisco had to be shocked it fell in its lap like that. Schefter said he thinks the Patriots reached out to the 49ers because of Bill Belichick’s respect for Garoppolo, and his respect for 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan and their GM John Lynch.

And if that’s all true, the cold-hearted, bottom-line-only Patriots took less from the 49ers (if the Browns were going to trade a second and third for McCarron, you have to imagine they’d have done the same or more for Garoppolo), just to save Garoppolo from having to go to the Browns. Ouch.

There’s some speculation involved from Schefter so this shouldn’t be taken as absolute fact, but Schefter is plugged in and if that’s all true, the Patriots getting a relatively short return on Garoppolo then makes sense. Also, if it’s true, can you imagine the reaction in the Browns’ front office when news of the trade broke?

The Browns are in a good spot to get their quarterback. They’re going to get the first pick of next year’s draft with some intriguing prospects in the class. They fired old GM Sashi Brown and hired John Dorsey, who should be able to turn the picks Brown stockpiled into good players (now that we hear this Garoppolo story from Schefter, did the circumstances of the Garoppolo non-trade lead to owner Jimmy Haslam firing Brown?). The Browns didn’t land Garoppolo, but it could end up being fine. Maybe, if Josh Rosen or Sam Darnold or whoever the Browns choose is a superstar, maybe Cleveland is even better off for not landing Garoppolo.

But the whole story is a glimpse into how low Cleveland has sunk.

@nero said:

Well, there's only one thing that makes me think that Bellichick doesn't think that Jimmy G will be a bust, and it is that he did the same deal the Browns offered 6 months later when everything could have gone way worse and he could have lost him in free agency at the end of the year. Normally he doesn't keep the players like that, unless he wanted to have some kind of insurance if Brady had any injury in the first half of the season.

Agreed

@ghoolie said:

Jimmy G will bust. How do I know? Belichik doesn't ever get the red butt when he makes a trade. He sold snake oil to a jackoff team in a jackoff city.

I am more interested in enough Kizer to Coleman,,,, Kizer to Gordon TDs for the Browns to say nyet to a QB in the 2018 draft. THAT is what I have on my Christmas list.

Well, there's only one thing that makes me think that Bellichick doesn't think that Jimmy G will be a bust, and it is that he did the same deal the Browns offered 6 months later when everything could have gone way worse and he could have lost him in free agency at the end of the year. Normally he doesn't keep the players like that, unless he wanted to have some kind of insurance if Brady had any injury in the first half of the season.

I am more interested in enough Kizer to Coleman,,,, Kizer to Gordon TDs for the Browns to say nyet to a QB in the 2018 draft. THAT is what I have on my Christmas list.

@unsympathetic said:

All worth reading and digesting

BB is apparently tired of dealing with Sashi.. because BB can no longer fleece Berea for whatever he proposes.

"The front office tries to win every deal" --- as opposed to the Jags, I presume?

I thought of it and it might be a bit of camuflaging the real reasons.

The case is that Browns offered a 2nd round pick for Jimmy Garoppolo in May, whereas the 49ers opted to get two FA. Both moves where made so none of the teams would draft a QB. 

But the Brows finally did, and the rookie is playing, poorly, but playing. 

So now, 6 months later, and half a season before the said player becomes free agent, who are you going to negotiate with: the team that already has a QB thanks to you not accepting a deal, or the team whose QB has not panned out and you know can work as your backup? 

If I were Sashi, I doubt I would have offered the same as 6months earlier, and the Patriots knew SF could offer the same or more.

@the-gipper said:

Though....riddle me this.   If our FO is supposedly playing "hardball" with other teams on trades....then how is it that they nearly got fleeced and stripped naked on this McCarron deal? They certainly would not have "won the deal" if that one had gone through.  (but maybe that is why it did not go through....Sashi saw the Browns being fleeced...and sabotaged the deal)

because man, Sashi let the trade Shmuck up is my theory. It was too late and they had to rush to make it, he didn't want to give up the picks, and has his assistant deal with it. It makes perfect sense. It would've messed up his process. He can say whatever he wants, but he gave Hue Kizer for a reason. To see if Kizer is a franchise QB, and if he isn't, to tank for the #1 pick.

@unsympathetic said:

All worth reading and digesting

BB is apparently tired of dealing with Sashi.. because BB can no longer fleece Berea for whatever he proposes.

"The front office tries to win every deal" --- as opposed to the Jags, I presume?

Well.....sure, OK....there are a couple of different ways of looking at this:

A. The Browns FO, with Sashi is just frustrating to deal with, even if something can get done; or:

B. The Browns FO is not a pushover like the Pats would like them to be.  They play hardball.

Now...I don't mind that the Browns FO is not seen as a pushover, or that they play hardball and that guys like BB who think they can just have their way with them are disappointed in that expectation. 

What I do mind is that the Browns FO makes bad personell choices when they do have the chance. Its OK to play hardball...if you get the right talent. Its bad when you get the wrong talent.

Though....riddle me this.   If our FO is supposedly playing "hardball" with other teams on trades....then how is it that they nearly got fleeced and stripped naked on this McCarron deal? They certainly would not have "won the deal" if that one had gone through.  (but maybe that is why it did not go through....Sashi saw the Browns being fleeced...and sabotaged the deal)

BB is apparently tired of dealing with Sashi.. because BB can no longer fleece Berea for whatever he proposes.

"The front office tries to win every deal" --- as opposed to the Jags, I presume?

@stillmotion said:

Hue said "trust me" with Kessler, so i'm saying my own "trust me"

In other words, you are saying subliminally "don't trust me".....as my judgment is as completely messed up as Hue's when it comes to QB talent.

And that is pretty fuhucking fuhucked up.

@the-gipper said:

There is NOTHING in the record to prove that.  It is all potential...and who knows if it will come to fruition.  The 49ers may still lose all the rest of their games...even with him in there.

Hue said "trust me" with Kessler, so i'm saying my own "trust me"

@stillmotion said:

He's a leader, learned under Brady, and has all the right intangibles.

There is NOTHING in the record to prove that.  It is all potential...and who knows if it will come to fruition.  The 49ers may still lose all the rest of their games...even with him in there.

@the-gipper said:

A very fair comment.  JG was a second round pick.  And yes, I agree with Quinn etc. that he has shown nothing at this point to warrant a 25 million dollar contract.  If he wins 4 games for the Niners the rest of the year? Well, maybe.

He's a leader, learned under Brady, and has all the right intangibles.

@bigalow80 said:

This is interesting and take it for what's it worth but I was listening to the Sirius XM blitz with Brady Quinn and Bruce Murray (they are pretty neutral for the most part), and one of the topics of conversation was comparing JG to the big 3 (rosen, darnold, allen)  in this upcoming draft class. The conclusion was that he would be 4th...which I found to be very interesting. Quinn loves Josh Allen and Murray compared Darnold to Luck especially in his senior year when he was also forcing a lot of passes. They both said that the risk with JG is that you are going to have to pay him AT LEAST 25 million/yr b/c that's what the tag is going to cost you plus a second rounder. Yes, you get his "experience" but in all reality it is only 2.5 games. Now, the niners will probably get at least 6 maybe 7 games to view him and make an assessment but for Quinn and Murray's money, they do not feel he is that much superior to any of the other three. Plus, how many times have back-up qb's come in for a few games, looked good, got massive deals from another team and then failed miserably. Just about every single time. Obviously, there are exceptions to the rules 

I find this interesting only because I was asking myself the same question. I was on the JG train and still think he is going to be a very good qb. I also feel the browns should have tried to get him from NE and given him a tryout. That being said, I was very surprised by what they said. I would have placed him in the top 2 compared to this class but for them to rank him that far below is surprising. For a team like the browns, maybe this was the reason they made a decision to not pursue. Maybe NE never even gave them an opportunity, something no one is talking about. Kizer has shown improvements and he is so young in his development. Maybe they want to actually see what he can be before making a decision. They are the ones who are out doing the scouting now during the season and maybe they have evaluated these guys and love one or two of them which has influenced this trade deadline.

A very fair comment.  JG was a second round pick.  And yes, I agree with Quinn etc. that he has shown nothing at this point to warrant a 25 million dollar contract.  If he wins 4 games for the Niners the rest of the year? Well, maybe.

I find this interesting only because I was asking myself the same question. I was on the JG train and still think he is going to be a very good qb. I also feel the browns should have tried to get him from NE and given him a tryout. That being said, I was very surprised by what they said. I would have placed him in the top 2 compared to this class but for them to rank him that far below is surprising. For a team like the browns, maybe this was the reason they made a decision to not pursue. Maybe NE never even gave them an opportunity, something no one is talking about. Kizer has shown improvements and he is so young in his development. Maybe they want to actually see what he can be before making a decision. They are the ones who are out doing the scouting now during the season and maybe they have evaluated these guys and love one or two of them which has influenced this trade deadline.

@miktoxic said:

u ain't seen Sheet until ur driving through KY dry county backroad still country where those people picking their belly buttons hope you break down driving through the rocks and limbs of a dirt road cuz u and ur friends thought it'd be cool to drive around and drink a case of beer. i don't know which is worse....the appalachian inbreds or the chicago project young african american killers.

I bet you got a purty mouth.

@ghoolie said:

When an Amishman sells a horse, it is because the horse has been worked 1 step shy of death. If you want to witnsee animal cruelty first hadn, spend a week in a Amish hay fields or planting fields.

u ain't seen Sheet until ur driving through KY dry county backroad still country where those people picking their belly buttons hope you break down driving through the rocks and limbs of a dirt road cuz u and ur friends thought it'd be cool to drive around and drink a case of beer. i don't know which is worse....the appalachian inbreds or the chicago project young african american killers.

@ghoolie said:

When an Amishman sells a horse, it is because the horse has been worked 1 step shy of death. If you want to witnsee animal cruelty first hadn, spend a week in a Amish hay fields or planting fields.

But some of them value their animals Tom. My brother had hunting privileges on an Amish guys farm- if you see a groundhog, shoot it- I don't want any of my horses falling into one of their holes & breaking a leg. As an aside- the best bacon I've ever had in my life came from that guy's farm. He smoked it over some hickory, and didn't particularly care how much wood he was using. And damn near zero shrinkage, unlike you get with the max water injected commercial crap. 

@orion said:

Hue is the football guy for us...and he was SUPPOSED to have a voice, but I truly do not believe that his voice was given much credence.  

Haslam likes "yes men" and Hue was cool with that and the Sashi moneyball Front Office because he thought they'd let him have more of a say.

But if Jimmy likes a QB, I bet they take him over what Hue wants.

Sashi is trying to save money and look for undervalued talent (Kizer)

Good QB's are rare.

@calfoxwc said:

I wish the Browns still listened to Sam.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2017/10/30/coach-sam-deshone-kizer-needed-veteran-mentor-such-as-josh-mccown-for-season/

Was good to hear Sam.

Of course he went straight to the fact that we've got no veteran QB voice in the QB room....and right to our WR's & TE's, which are our 'playmakers', except they're NOT.  And his major point of a lawyer being put in charge of the 53 man roster.

Now, I applauded Haslam for thinking outside of the box in the Committee concept...because the one GM football guy thing was not working for him, each time he tried it.  But really, you have to have a true blue football guy in that committee.  And he has to be given a strong voice.  -  Hue is the football guy for us...and he was SUPPOSED to have a voice, but I truly do not believe that his voice was given much credence.  

It was funny when Sam was asked what Hue should do now (as far as the rest of the season goes).....I'm certain that Sam wanted to say, "Well, Hue's phucked.  What the hell CAN he do with what he's got."