@flyingfooldoug said:

Ok, it seems he had some interesting views on race too. 

You mean Stepian? Yea...I think he had a kind of plantation mentality.   Here was some of his handiwork:

@the-gipper said:

He didn't overpay for World B. Free.  World B. Free may have saved this franchise.   No....it was for the fact that he stripped the club of any future in return for a handful of magic beans....that were inert.

Ok, it seems he had some interesting views on race too. 

@flyingfooldoug said:

I thought he started way overpaying for players like W B Free. Been awhile tho. 

He didn't overpay for World B. Free.  World B. Free may have saved this franchise.   No....it was for the fact that he stripped the club of any future in return for a handful of magic beans....that were inert.

@the-gipper said:

No.   I don't think so. He was responsible for the "Stepian rule", which as far as I know is still in place.  That rule says that an NBA team may not trade more than one of its future first round draft picks in a row.   Stepian had traded like 4-5 of the Cavs future draft picks in like one year....and only picking up a bunch of mediocre at best players....the likes of Scott Wedman etc.   (how is that for a blast from the past?)

I thought he started way overpaying for players like W B Free. Been awhile tho. 

@flyingfooldoug said:

Wasn't Ted Stepien the reason that a salary cap was invented to begin with?

No.   I don't think so. He was responsible for the "Stepian rule", which as far as I know is still in place.  That rule says that an NBA team may not trade more than one of its future first round draft picks in a row.   Stepian had traded like 4-5 of the Cavs future draft picks in like one year....and only picking up a bunch of mediocre at best players....the likes of Scott Wedman etc.   (how is that for a blast from the past?)

@mjp28 said:

Salary caps a good necessary "evil" in sports, without them you end up with the NY YANKEE$. 

ALSO of the 32 NFL teams 17 show ownership after 2000 and only 5 excluding GB before 1990......new money or at least new financing. 

Rich people have always owned sports teams, race horses, sailing ships why? Because they are the only ones that can. 

Wasn't Ted Stepien the reason that a salary cap was invented to begin with?

@the-gipper said:

The ONLY NFL team that has that distinction is the Green Bay Packers.  In fact, the league now has a rule against having a community owned franchise. The NFL wants only greedy rich people with profit motivation to own their teams. Its a fact.  (and FYI...the salary cap is instituted to guarantee that each of these greedy owners makes a lot of money. But...on the other hand, most fans feel that is good nevertheless because it promotes parity....and avoids the situation just as you state:  that only the wealthy, big market teams take all the good players and all the titles.

But, here is an interesting phenomena:   The one league that does NOT have a salary cap is baseball.  Yet, it is baseball that has had about the most parity of any of the sports. 

I would have to check on whether any of the other teams in the other leagues are essentially "community owned"....but I doubt that they are.

MLB is a bit different especially with their farm system expenses compare with the NFL, NBA but you GENERALLY still want to be in the upper echelon of payrolls to be competitive  (FORBES opening day payroll, not after the in season dumps):

Rk '17Team2017 PayrollRk '162016 Payroll% +/-1

Dodgers$225,553,0871$234,648,955-3.9%2

Tigers$199,750,6003$195,901,4812.0%3

Yankees$195,282,0582$225,228,650-13.3%4

Giants$181,514,4315$173,203,2784.8%5

Red Sox$178,818,0524$190,377,215-6.1%6

Cubs$176,872,3126$170,266,5983.9%7

Rangers$173,114,7308$149,338,55315.9%8

Nationals$164,591,08810$147,084,54611.9%9

Orioles$164,261,2999$147,894,71311.1%10

Angels$164,050,8337$166,285,8331.3%11

Mets$155,641,37913$138,871,05712.1%12

Mariners$154,157,72012$142,323,2908.3%13

Cardinals$150,380,00011$144,596,0004.0%14

Royals$145,925,25015$137,318,4776.3%15

BlueJays$143,941,10014$138,063,2284.3%16

Rockies$127,943,57117$113,244,57113.0%17

Braves$126,079,52422$95,371,64832.2%18

Indians$125,808,02927$87,196,40044.3%19

Astros$122,407,23323$94,058,50030.1%20

Marlins$120,191,29728$74,851,29560.6%21Phillies$111,868,37825$91,852,16721.8%22Twins$104,837,50018$104,083,7000.7%23W. Sox$100,054,93716$115,248,667-13.2%24DBacks$93,180,49921$97,266,463-4.2%25Reds$93,026,28624$92,732,3030.3%26Pirates$91,499,17220$98,780,500-7.4%27Athletics$81,738,33426$87,326,233-6.4%28Rays$71,351,61129$67,291,0086.0%29Padres$61,411,78919$102,381,219-40.0%30Brewers$60,810,09030$59,843,4361.6%

@the-gipper said:

Curious question:     What ever happened to Ted Turner?

At one time he owned the Atlanta Braves, the Atlanta Hawks, and the Atlanta NHL team....that eventually moved to Winnipeg.  He must have moved on from owning sports teams.

He's still around but gone for a decade (+/-) from the Braves, strange dude but I'm forever thankful for TCM which I'm watching now.

At one time he owned the Atlanta Braves, the Atlanta Hawks, and the Atlanta NHL team....that eventually moved to Winnipeg.  He must have moved on from owning sports teams.

@nero said:

I found interesting when I saw on your first post that GB was owned by the fans, which I already knew, BUT that it also was founded in 1923... Osasuna was founded in 1920, lol.

In Spanish League, anyway, I just recall Real Madrid, Barcelona, Athletic Club de Bilbao and Osasuna. Maybe there are more, but those ones have been a constant mention at least in Primera Division.

The Packers actually go back further than 1923.   They were a "club" team prior to that for years.  The NFL formed in 1920. The Packers joined a year later in 1921.  (only the Bears and the Cardinals are original 1920 current NFL teams).  That 1923 date may have been when there was some corporate reorganization or something.)

In Spanish League, anyway, I just recall Real Madrid, Barcelona, Athletic Club de Bilbao and Osasuna. Maybe there are more, but those ones have been a constant mention at least in Primera Division.

@nero said:

The problem in european soccer is, as there is no cap salary (I envy NFL for that), if the owner of your team is an association, or a billionaire, makes a huge difference in the team and therefore the competition. 

For instance, my home team, Osasuna, is owned by the fans, and we don't have a millionaire inverting on it, so it is pretty difficult for a team located in a region with 500,000 inhabitants to even stay in Spanish Primera Division. There are other teams with more numerous fanbases or with more investors and that affects the competition. 

Anyway, there's a proud feeling of having a team owned by the fans. 

The ONLY NFL team that has that distinction is the Green Bay Packers.  In fact, the league now has a rule against having a community owned franchise. The NFL wants only greedy rich people with profit motivation to own their teams. Its a fact.  (and FYI...the salary cap is instituted to guarantee that each of these greedy owners makes a lot of money. But...on the other hand, most fans feel that is good nevertheless because it promotes parity....and avoids the situation just as you state:  that only the wealthy, big market teams take all the good players and all the titles.

But, here is an interesting phenomena:   The one league that does NOT have a salary cap is baseball.  Yet, it is baseball that has had about the most parity of any of the sports. 

I would have to check on whether any of the other teams in the other leagues are essentially "community owned"....but I doubt that they are.

@nero said:

The problem in european soccer is, as there is no cap salary (I envy NFL for that), if the owner of your team is an association, or a billionaire, makes a huge difference in the team and therefore the competition. 

For instance, my home team, Osasuna, is owned by the fans, and we don't have a milliona ire inverting on it, so it is pretty difficult for a team located in a region with 500,000 inhabitants to even stay in Spanish Primera Division. There are other teams with more numerous fanbases or with more investors and that affects the competition. 

Anyway, there's a proud feeling of having a team owned by the fans. 

Salary caps a good necessary "evil" in sports, without them you end up with the NY YANKEE$. 

ALSO of the 32 NFL teams 17 show ownership after 2000 and only 5 excluding GB before 1990......new money or at least new financing. 

Rich people have always owned sports teams, race horses, sailing ships why? Because they are the only ones that can. 

For instance, my home team, Osasuna, is owned by the fans, and we don't have a millionaire inverting on it, so it is pretty difficult for a team located in a region with 500,000 inhabitants to even stay in Spanish Primera Division. There are other teams with more numerous fanbases or with more investors and that affects the competition. 

Anyway, there's a proud feeling of having a team owned by the fans. 

And I think there is some truth in that.  Who ever heard of Jimmy Haslam before he bought the Browns?   Well, his brother is governor of Tenn....which brought his brother fame. Maybe Jimmy wanted some of that. 

The biggest publicity seeker of them all is Jerry Jones.  In fact, this arrogant asswipe went so far as to call himself the "ranking" owner in the NFL.  People on the radio were trying to figure out what that meant. While his team may be the most valuable, he is far from the wealthiest.  See the list above.  A half dozen other owners are worth more.  He certainly is NOT the longest tenured. Think of Families like the Maras, Rooneys, Halas/McCaskey, Mike Brown etc.  Much longer tenured. HE calls himself the "ranking" owner because in his own arrogant mind he thinks he is the most important/influential owner, apparently.  Well...I am not sure the other owners go along with that.  He is in this tussle with Arthur Blank over Roger Goodell's contract...and he is going to lose.    He is seen as a guy who is all in favor of things like hammering the Pats for their indiscretions, and having Goodell suspend players for alleged misbehavior.......until and unless it is one of his players who get disciplined.  Then he gets all butthurt over it. In other words, he is a hypocrite.

And, in one sense, maybe he should be.  He is in that tussle with Blank....but did you see what happened when Blank's Falcons met the Cowboys on Sunday....the Falcons hammered the Cowboys.

SWEET!

@the-gipper said:

Here are the MLS owners.....but just FYI.....this soccer league is not considered one of the North American "Major Leagues"...there are just the Big Four for now.  (maybe someday in the future it will achieve what is considered ""major" status)

Major League Soccer Ownership

Franchise	Owner(s)
Atlanta United FC	Arthur Blank (AMB Sports and Entertainment Group)
Chicago Fire	Andrew Hauptman (Andell Holdings)
Colorado Rapids	Stan Kroenke (Kroenke Sports & Entertainment)
Columbus Crew	Anthony Precourt (Precourt Sports Ventures LLC)
D.C. United	Erick Thohir  Jason Levien  William Chang (D.C. United Holdings)
FC Dallas	Clark Hunt
Houston Dynamo	Gabriel Brener  Jake Silverstein  Ben Guill   Oscar De La Hoya (Golden Boy Promotions)
Los Angeles FC	Henry Nguyen  Peter Guber  Tom Penn  Ruben Gnanalingam  Vincent Tan  Will Ferrell  Magic Johnson  Nomar Garciaparra  Mia Hamm Garciaparra  Tony Robbins  Allen Shapiro  Bennett Rosenthal  Brandon Schneider  Chad Hurley  Harry Tsao  Irwin P. Raij  Jason Sugarman  Kirk Lacob  Larry Berg  Mike Mahan  Mark Leschly  Paul Schaeffer  Rick Welts
Los Angeles Galaxy	Philip Anschutz (AEG)
Minnesota United FC	William W. McGuire
Montreal Impact	Joey Saputo
New England Revolution	Robert Kraft
New York City FC	Sheikh Mansour (City Football Group)  Ruigang Li (City Football Group)  Hal Steinbrenner (Yankee Global Enterprises)  Hank Steinbrenner (Yankee Global Enterprises)
New York Red Bulls	Dietrich Mateschitz (Red Bull GmbH)
Orlando City SC	Flavio Augusto da Silva  Phil Rawlins
Philadelphia Union	Keystone Sports & Entertainment, LLC
Portland Timbers	Merritt Paulson (Peregrine Sports, LLC)
Real Salt Lake	Dell Loy Hansen
San Jose Earthquakes	Lewis Wolff (Earthquakes Soccer, LLC)  John Fisher (Earthquakes Soccer, LLC)
Seattle Sounders FC	Joe Roth  Paul Allen  Adrian Hanauer  Drew Carey
Sporting Kansas City	Sporting Club
Toronto FC	Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment
Vancouver Whitecaps FC	Greg Kerfoot  Steve Luczo  Jeff Mallett  Steve Nash

I see there is one here that fits what you say:  the New York city Club.....who are partners in it with the owner of the New York Yankees.

I also see where several NFL owners own shares in some of these teams:

Arthur Blank, owns the Atlanta Falcons

Paul Allen, owner of the Seahawks

Robert Kraft owns the Patriots

Clark Hunt owns the Chiefs

Kroenke owns the Rams.

I have heard that MLS is a minor league. 

I think that NFL owners having MLS teams has to do with the soccer teams being less expensive to maintain and if you already have the facilities for an NFL team, well, a soccer team needs less facilities overall (there's way less people in a soccer team).

My guess is that arabs and asiatics get into european soccer because it is a sport already popular in their countries, so it is an easy way to become popular. Also, economically I'd bet that european teams in some countries have more problems economically than in the US (at least in Spain) and soccer teams are not as expensive. 

Major League Soccer Ownership

Franchise	Owner(s)
Atlanta United FC	Arthur Blank (AMB Sports and Entertainment Group)
Chicago Fire	Andrew Hauptman (Andell Holdings)
Colorado Rapids	Stan Kroenke (Kroenke Sports & Entertainment)
Columbus Crew	Anthony Precourt (Precourt Sports Ventures LLC)
D.C. United	Erick Thohir  Jason Levien  William Chang (D.C. United Holdings)
FC Dallas	Clark Hunt
Houston Dynamo	Gabriel Brener  Jake Silverstein  Ben Guill   Oscar De La Hoya (Golden Boy Promotions)
Los Angeles FC	Henry Nguyen  Peter Guber  Tom Penn  Ruben Gnanalingam  Vincent Tan  Will Ferrell  Magic Johnson  Nomar Garciaparra  Mia Hamm Garciaparra  Tony Robbins  Allen Shapiro  Bennett Rosenthal  Brandon Schneider  Chad Hurley  Harry Tsao  Irwin P. Raij  Jason Sugarman  Kirk Lacob  Larry Berg  Mike Mahan  Mark Leschly  Paul Schaeffer  Rick Welts
Los Angeles Galaxy	Philip Anschutz (AEG)
Minnesota United FC	William W. McGuire
Montreal Impact	Joey Saputo
New England Revolution	Robert Kraft
New York City FC	Sheikh Mansour (City Football Group)  Ruigang Li (City Football Group)  Hal Steinbrenner (Yankee Global Enterprises)  Hank Steinbrenner (Yankee Global Enterprises)
New York Red Bulls	Dietrich Mateschitz (Red Bull GmbH)
Orlando City SC	Flavio Augusto da Silva  Phil Rawlins
Philadelphia Union	Keystone Sports & Entertainment, LLC
Portland Timbers	Merritt Paulson (Peregrine Sports, LLC)
Real Salt Lake	Dell Loy Hansen
San Jose Earthquakes	Lewis Wolff (Earthquakes Soccer, LLC)  John Fisher (Earthquakes Soccer, LLC)
Seattle Sounders FC	Joe Roth  Paul Allen  Adrian Hanauer  Drew Carey
Sporting Kansas City	Sporting Club
Toronto FC	Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment
Vancouver Whitecaps FC	Greg Kerfoot  Steve Luczo  Jeff Mallett  Steve Nash

I see there is one here that fits what you say:  the New York city Club.....who are partners in it with the owner of the New York Yankees.

I also see where several NFL owners own shares in some of these teams:

Arthur Blank, owns the Atlanta Falcons

Paul Allen, owner of the Seahawks

Robert Kraft owns the Patriots

Clark Hunt owns the Chiefs

Kroenke owns the Rams.

And here is Hockey....all Americans and Canadians except one German guy.

Again...nothing like what you say....though a few companies are involved...and I don't know about there makeup.

Franchise	Principal Owner(s)	Operating Entities	Owned Since
Atlanta Hawks	Tony Ressler, Grant Hill, Steven Price, Rick Schnall, Sara Blakely, Jesse Itzler	Hawks Basketball, Inc.	2015
Boston Celtics	Wyc Grousbeck	Boston Basketball Partners	2002
Brooklyn Nets	Mikhail Prokhorov	ONEXIM Sports and Entertainment Holding USA, Inc.	2010
Charlotte Hornets	Michael Jordan	Hornets Sports & Entertainment, Hornets Basketball Holdings, LLC	2010
Chicago Bulls	Jerry Reinsdorf	Chicago Professional Sports Limited Partnership	1985
Cleveland Cavaliers	Dan Gilbert		2005
Dallas Mavericks	Mark Cuban	Dallas Basketball Limited	2000
Denver Nuggets	Ann Walton Kroenke	Kroenke Sports & Entertainment, Denver Nuggets Limited Partnership	2000
Detroit Pistons	Tom Gores	Palace Sports & Entertainment, Detroit Pistons Basketball Company	2011
Golden State Warriors	Joe Lacob (majority),  Peter Guber	GSW Sports LLC	2010
Houston Rockets	Tilman Fertitta	Fertitta Entertainment	2017
Indiana Pacers	Herbert Simon	Pacers Sports & Entertainment, Pacers Basketball, LLC	1983
Los Angeles Clippers	Steve Ballmer[1]	LAC Basketball Club, Inc.	2014
Los Angeles Lakers	Jeanie Buss,  Jim Buss and  Johnny Buss, along with siblings in the Jerry Buss family trust.[2]	The Los Angeles Lakers, Inc.	1979
Memphis Grizzlies	Robert J. Pera, Daniel E. Straus, Steven Kaplan	Memphis Basketball LLC	2012
Miami Heat	Micky Arison	Miami Heat Limited Partnership	1995
Milwaukee Bucks	Marc Lasry and  Wesley Edens	Milwaukee Bucks, Inc.	2014
Minnesota Timberwolves	Glen Taylor	Minnesota Timberwolves Basketball Limited Partnership	1995
New Orleans Pelicans	Tom Benson	New Orleans Pelicans NBA Limited Partnership	2012
New York Knicks	James Dolan	The Madison Square Garden Company, New York Knicks, Inc.	1997
Oklahoma City Thunder	Clay Bennett	Professional Basketball Club LLC	2006
Orlando Magic	Richard DeVos	RDV Sports, Inc., Orlando Magic, Ltd.	1991
Philadelphia 76ers	Joshua Harris, Adam Aron, David Blitzer, Martin J. Geller, David B. Heller, Travis Hennings, James Lassiter, Marc Leder, Michael Rubin, Will Smith, Jada Pinkett Smith, Art Wrubel, Handy Soetedjo,  Erick Thohir, Kevin Hart	Philadelphia 76ers, Inc.	2011
Phoenix Suns	Robert Sarver	Suns Legacy Partners, LLC	2004
Portland Trail Blazers	Paul Allen	Vulcan Inc., Trail Blazers, Inc.	1988
Sacramento Kings	Vivek Ranadivé,[3] Paul E. Jacobs, Gary E. Jacobs, Hal Jacobs, Jeffrey A. Jacobs[4]	Sacramento Kings Partnership Group (operating entity yet to be named)	2013
San Antonio Spurs	Peter Holt	Spurs Sports & Entertainment, San Antonio Spurs LLC	1993
Toronto Raptors	Larry Tanenbaum	Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, Toronto Raptors Basketball Club	1998
Utah Jazz	Gail Miller	Larry H. Miller Sports & Entertainment, Jazz Basketball Investors, Inc.	1985
Washington Wizards	Ted Leonsis	Monumental Sports & Entertainment	2010

References[edit]

None of these appear to fit that category.....though there is the one Russian guy, owner of the Nets, plus one of the partners is an Indian.

@nero said:

In Europe, soccer teams are being bought by sheiks, arabs and even chinese... Is any of that happening in America?

I would have to check.  Here is the list of NFL owners, and not one of these would apply to what you say,  except maybe Shahid Khan...and I don't think he does:

Edit note:  Khan is of Pakistani origin...but has been in the US since age 16, and has been a US citizen since 1991.

Franchise	Owner	Year
Arizona Cardinals	Bill Bidwill	1972
Atlanta Falcons	Arthur Blank†1	2004
Baltimore Ravens	Steve Bisciotti†1	2004
Buffalo Bills	Kim and Terry Pegula	2014
Carolina Panthers	Jerry Richardson2	1993
Chicago Bears	Virginia Halas McCaskey†‡3	1983
Cincinnati Bengals	Mike Brown‡3	1991
Cleveland Browns	Jimmy Haslam	2012
Dallas Cowboys	Jerry Jones	1989
Denver Broncos	Pat Bowlen†6 (Bowlen Family Trust)	1984
Detroit Lions	Martha Ford†[1]	2014
Green Bay Packers	Green Bay Packers, Inc. (governed by a Board of Directors)5	1923
Houston Texans	Robert C. McNair†2	1999
Indianapolis Colts	Jim Irsay‡	1997
Jacksonville Jaguars	Shahid Khan	2012
Kansas City Chiefs	Clark Hunt‡3	2006
Los Angeles Chargers	Alex Spanos† and family1,6	1984
Los Angeles Rams	Stan Kroenke1	2010
Miami Dolphins	Stephen M. Ross†	2008
Minnesota Vikings	Zygi Wilf†	2005
New England Patriots	Robert Kraft	1994
New Orleans Saints	Tom Benson	1985
New York Giants	John Mara (50%)4  Steve Tisch (50%)	2005
New York Jets	Robert Wood Johnson IV	2000
Oakland Raiders	Carol and Mark Davis (mother and son)†‡	2011
Philadelphia Eagles	Jeffrey Lurie and Christina Weiss Lurie	1994
Pittsburgh Steelers	Art Rooney II4 (60%) and family (12%)3,4	2017
San Francisco 49ers	Jed York‡1	2009
Seattle Seahawks	Paul Allen	1997
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Bryan Glazer, Edward Glazer, Joel Glazer and Darcie Kassewitz‡	2014
Tennessee Titans	Susie Smith, Amy Strunk, Susan Lewis 3 Barclay and Kenneth Adams IV‡4	2013
Washington Redskins	Dan Snyder†	1999