@tour2ma said:

True... but have to remember it is now illegal to pull players off a pile. Had we done so and been flagged and had 10 seconds run off the clock. Then the bit-chin' would be around "stupid penalties" and "lack of discipline." Neither of which have been issues the last couple games... at least not b-itch-worthy...even around here.

So we stood around waiting for the Lions to get up at a normal pace... which of course, they did not... clearly "delaying the game" by any normal definition. But can't look to the refs to bail us out of a misery of our own making.

In that situation you throw the ball into, or out of, the endzone three times, then on 4th down decide whether to try again, run or pass, or kick the FG.

Agreed....and not so much of pulling guys off the pile...even the ones who weren't in the pile were just standing there.   No one was in a hurry for like 3 or 4 seconds and then they started moving. 

But yes....ball has to be thrown into the end zone. 

@mark-o said:

Exactly...he can talk to the QB through the helmet....he needs to coach him the entire time.  Remind him there's no timeouts and only 15 seconds.   Was a bit alarming on watching it again to see how no one was really in a hurry for at least a couple of seconds.  It's like the entire offense stood around wondering what the hell happened.

True... but have to remember it is now illegal to pull players off a pile. Had we done so and been flagged and had 10 seconds run off the clock. Then the bit-chin' would be around "stupid penalties" and "lack of discipline." Neither of which have been issues the last couple games... at least not b-itch-worthy...even around here.

So we stood around waiting for the Lions to get up at a normal pace... which of course, they did not... clearly "delaying the game" by any normal definition. But can't look to the refs to bail us out of a misery of our own making.

In that situation you throw the ball into, or out of, the endzone three times, then on 4th down decide whether to try again, run or pass, or kick the FG.

@tour2ma said:

On the sneak... I still believe that if Hue calls a play where the sneak is an audible option, then Hue has to call in that it is not an option in this situation along with the play... which had to be some kind of PAP out of a power formation. You take a young QB by the hand and assume nothing in game.

Exactly...he can talk to the QB through the helmet....he needs to coach him the entire time.  Remind him there's no timeouts and only 15 seconds.   Was a bit alarming on watching it again to see how no one was really in a hurry for at least a couple of seconds.  It's like the entire offense stood around wondering what the hell happened.

Once Louis' fade attempt was stuffed, it's on Kizer to see it and throw the backshoulder. He held the ball long enough to see that... it's what Hue reacted to immediately on the sideline.

On the sneak... I still believe that if Hue calls a play where the sneak is an audible option, then Hue has to call in that it is not an option in this situation along with the play... which had to be some kind of PAP out of a power formation. You take a young QB by the hand and assume nothing in game.

@tour2ma said:

Isn't Kubs a WCO guy complete with ZBS? Kinda the antithesis of Hue's vertical approach and Man blocking scheme.

Here's a name.... Bruce Ariens. Similar philosophy and there's grumbling in the desert. Also adds a HC mentor...

Noted earlier that I saw Al (and his kid) both spending more time with Kizer on the sidelines so may be some movement there. But I can't see Hue giving up the playcalling duties... not by choice. And honestly... not seeing the playcalling being the issue it appeared to be earlier.

Also noted earlier that an MLB-style "bench coach" is an option. One DePo has likely already ID's...

Yes and no.  And also "it depends".  Yes in that the playcalling appears to be solid for much of the game.  No, in that our red zone playcalling is still baffling.  How MANY times are we going to run that stupid fade pattern?  I didn't see the "catch" Njoku made where he got one foot in, so I don't know if it was truly possible to get both down, but that was probably the closest time Kizer has come to making that stupid play work, and I'm about tired of it.  Not to be outdone, we called it ONE MORE TIME, and this time to Ricardo Louis?  We all know it was picked off, and Ricardo got jammed and appeared to almost give up.  It was pathetic.  We HAVE to figure out a better strategy.  Some dig routes, crossers, or even a perfectly timed out route while rolling the pocket.  SOMETHING DIFFERENT.  

"It depends" in that we don't really know just how much flexibility Kizer has at the line of scrimmage.  We know he switched the play to that godforsaken QB sneak at the end of the half, so that's not on Hue, but what IS on Hue Jackson is taking our final timeout with just over a minute to go.  Hue was asked about this, and he said, "I had a really good play and I wanted to be sure everyone was on the same page.  I wanted them to get it set up."  The "really good play" he was speaking of is the aforementioned failed fade pass to Njoku.  Now, it APPEARS that it was a good play call, just poor execution (shocking, I know).  But if left us without a timeout, and that cost us a minimum of 3 points.  Ugh....

@texasag1969 said:

Kubiac OC - just go get him and the game day nightmare stops without blowing up the whole organization.

Isn't Kubs a WCO guy complete with ZBS? Kinda the antithesis of Hue's vertical approach and Man blocking scheme.

Here's a name.... Bruce Ariens. Similar philosophy and there's grumbling in the desert. Also adds a HC mentor...

@jiggins7919 said:

I'm all in for Al Saunders.  He's already with the team, he knows the type of offense Hue wants to run, and he's obviously experienced with things like the clock.  Don't let his age fool you.  That guy runs the field more than the players, and basically every player that's been asked about him says he's not human.  He's our guy.

Noted earlier that I saw Al (and his kid) both spending more time with Kizer on the sidelines so may be some movement there. But I can't see Hue giving up the playcalling duties... not by choice. And honestly... not seeing the playcalling being the issue it appeared to be earlier.

Also noted earlier that an MLB-style "bench coach" is an option. One DePo has likely already ID's...

@the-gipper said:

Well....hold on there Hoss.   Saunders is now what?  WR coach.   If there is a criticism of him you could say that he has not developed these young WRs well enough.  

But as far as being OC....he could likely handle the job. In his current position he has no say over play selection, clock management, etc.   So I don't see how you could attribute those failures to him.

Whether he would be the right choice for OC of this team....that is debatable....but I don't think he can be criticized for simply being associated with the problems. 

I mean....that would be like us blaming you for Johnny Fuyuckyuckyucking Football.  Which...maybe we should 

I publicly told him right here to stop the horseshit and play the f'n game. So maybe Saunders is telling Hue Sheet that he doesn't listen to either.

@texasag1969 said:

Since he has been with the team, exactly how has he affected positively Huey Lewis & The Gameday Experience? Not one iota. 

Pass.

Well....hold on there Hoss.   Saunders is now what?  WR coach.   If there is a criticism of him you could say that he has not developed these young WRs well enough.  

But as far as being OC....he could likely handle the job. In his current position he has no say over play selection, clock management, etc.   So I don't see how you could attribute those failures to him.

Whether he would be the right choice for OC of this team....that is debatable....but I don't think he can be criticized for simply being associated with the problems. 

I mean....that would be like us blaming you for Johnny Fuyuckyuckyucking Football.  Which...maybe we should 

@texasag1969 said:

Since he has been with the team, exactly how has he affected positively Huey Lewis & The Gameday Experience? Not one iota. 

Pass.

Maybe it's a union thing. Since he's not officially offense of coordinator he's not allowed to help in those areas.

WSS

@jiggins7919 said:

I'm all in for Al Saunders.  He's already with the team, he knows the type of offense Hue wants to run, and he's obviously experienced with things like the clock.  Don't let his age fool you.  That guy runs the field more than the players, and basically every player that's been asked about him says he's not human.  He's our guy.

Since he has been with the team, exactly how has he affected positively Huey Lewis & The Gameday Experience? Not one iota. 

Pass.

@jiggins7919 said:

I'm all in for Al Saunders.  He's already with the team, he knows the type of offense Hue wants to run, and he's obviously experienced with things like the clock.  Don't let his age fool you.  That guy runs the field more than the players, and basically every player that's been asked about him says he's not human.  He's our guy.

I didn't know about him since I'm not completely familiar with the entire staff. I added ages because at certain point in life you don't always want to be in the spotlight taking major responsabilities and prefer minor roles.

He has had 5 offensive coordinators while he was an assistant coach or head coach during his career: 

- Jimmy Raye II: he's last job in the NFL was as offensive senior assistant in 2013, so I don't think he's an option. Also, he only worked 1 year with Hue in the 2001 Redskins.

- Bob Bratkowksi: He worked in the Bengals and even won a division title in 2005. He's unemployed and his last job was last year as Titans' wide receiver coach. He's 61. 

- Al Saunders: He was his OC when Hue was HC in Oakland, so he might be an option. He's currently senior offensive asistant in the Browns.  He's 70. 

- Jay Gruden: Well, I don't think we can get the current Redskins HC as OC for the Browns, lol. 

- Cam Cameron: He is, for me, the most attractive option. He worked as Baltimore Ravens OC from 2008 to 2012, but ended up being dismissed before the 2012 playoffs (that year the Ravens won the Superbowl). That team was defense heavy, and the offense was ranked 19th, but he's been in the division and has helped in a good team. Prior to 2012, in 2010 and 2011 the Ravens went 12-4. His quaterback was Flacco, who also has a strong arm as Kizer but is not a top tier QB. He's not working as a coach currently and his last job was as LSU's OC/QB coach from 2013 to 2016. He's 56. 

I'm not saying here that I like these choices, or that they're my favorite ones, but they might be suitable if they've already worked with Hue, who possibly would be willing (if he is, which I don't think so) to give OC responsabilities to someone he has already worked with. 

So if he gets an OC which delivers him of some of his duties, and changes the playcalling and improves the gameplan, well, I think that would be a huge step. 

WSS

@mark-o said:

I don't want Hue to stay and get help but I'd like some young OC from a good team to be our next head coach.   I don't know who that is...but I'm sure theres one somewhere in the NFL.

What about the Colts OC, Rob Chudzinski? He looks like a real up-and-comer.

@logicisforsquares said:

This FO would hire a great ping pong player in the hopes that his play style can be adapted to football.

Nah, scout the rugby ranks, it's sorta like football.... If that fails, lacrosse- Jim Brown was great at in his day- he'll know talent when he sees it.  

@texasag1969 said:

Kubiac OC - just go get him and the game day nightmare stops without blowing up the whole organization.

Sure, why not?

@clevfan4life said:

They were flocking hard to the browns last time we did this werent they? I mean they sat in on their obligatory interviews and then uber'd out hard for hopkins didnt they? Boy i just bet these young up and coming oc's cant wait to land in cleveland. 

Ffs even shanahan just won his first game with SF and he basically sht all over clev in his post interviews. It isnt happening. Clev will get d3 weightlifting coaches, and like it

Well that would be an upgrade over the D3 waterboy we have right now

@texasag1969 said:

Kubiac OC - just go get him and the game day nightmare stops without blowing up the whole organization.

I would like to see Kubiak here but I doubt he would come as long as Corky and the window lickers are in charge of stocking the offense. They appear to have no idea how to identify even an average WR.

@stillmotion said:

If he goes 1-95, THEN we'll evaluate, but let Hue grow with the team.

The only thing hue could grow is a Chia pet on his head...

@mark-o said:

don't hurt yourself backpeddling. 

oh ffs, what are you?

@clevfan4life said:

yeah I was being completely serious that a team hired it's coach in june.

don't hurt yourself backpeddling. 

@mark-o said:

Hue agreed a week before training camp? 

yeah I was being completely serious that a team hired it's coach in june.