@roycerolls said:

 Using the first overall pick on a running back would not only never happen, but also be the kiss of death for this front office (assuming they survive this season).

You don't think that 1-27 isn't already a kiss of death?

The Texans keep losing and it appears their ceiling is 6 wins this season, more likely 5, hopefully 4.  If The Browns have a hard on for Barkley, they can draft him with their second first rounder.  This off season needs to be about finding the QB unless Kizer flips a switch in these last 4 games and plays the Browns out of the first pick by winning 3 games, but we all know that won’t happen. 

@the-gipper said:

No one is claiming this D is playing great.  No doubt that some improvements are needed:   some better DBs.

And what is it about TEs just being wide open over the middle all the time?  Is it because Peppers is 30 yards behind the line of scrimmage.   Still...the fact that we have defensive problems does not mean that we can't see issues with this QB. 

We have to address the defensive backs. Too bad that I don't really believe DeSean Kizer has the guy because we could have a great running back Prospect and wide receiver Prospect and have three picks in the second round for the defensive backfield.

WSS

@miktoxic said:

what i saw of the game in passing (as in walking away) is not kizer as the prob.

all you #s fags and guys who propose the brown's defense is some great entity, i can post video right now showing opposing rbs and wrs running through this 'killer' D like a hot knife through butter, every Shmucking week since the 0-0 start of this season. so go ahead and tout this group like they are 11 and 1.

i'd rather have deshone kizer as the brown's qb next year and not reach into this whack-butt qb class considering the past decade of NOT picking (at all, not even really attempting) the classic prototypical rookie who in their sophomore  or junior year has become a NFL stantion. do we really have to name them? and now consider a rosen or darnold as someone that can even sniff their jocks?

why not fix the OL and running game and actually fix this so-called killer D before being worried about some weak, thin-elbowed west coast fag as a saviour of this team next year when you could've had starting pros from A-Z even past 2 years?

btw, if my name was aaron rodgers and had that talent plus banging olivia munn i'd be Socky too. ask sonny jurgensen, mickey mantle, ty cobb, lawrence taylor, david wells or even oil can (smoke crack between innings) boyd how they did intoxicated on the field.

No one is claiming this D is playing great.  No doubt that some improvements are needed:   some better DBs.

And what is it about TEs just being wide open over the middle all the time?  Is it because Peppers is 30 yards behind the line of scrimmage.   Still...the fact that we have defensive problems does not mean that we can't see issues with this QB. 

@mark-o said:

I think the game just moves too fast for Kizer unfortunately.   Equally as unfortunate....I think it moves to fast for our head coach as well to handle the job.  Those two things together are not going to win many games. 

Sayonara to  current day Nick Skorich....and get a Brian Sipe to replace the current day Mike Phipps.

I like the term I coined about Kizer:   a Yeti in a desert.

@hoorta said:

Don't get me started on the guys we let walk....   (((())))

There's the difference Mik- I do. Re watch that last Kizer interception about 10 times and you'll see my point. Not only was the intended receiver double covered like a blanket- he threw the ball around 10 yards too short. Earlier Potential completion to Gordon- a true Sam Snead "Worm Burner" that had no chance. 

So I ask you- did Bernie ever look like he sucked this bad when he got his chance? FWIW, Gordon is better than anyone Kosar had at WR. While we're at it- Ghoolie pegged Coleman as a bust- and he just might be right. 

Funny thing was , I was going to retort with Ozzie Nescome.. But then I remember he was kind of a token player on that getting his "one catch" a game the last few years of his career...

@tour2ma said:

Meanwhile back at the thread...

I think we saw today why the answer to the thread title is, "Yes."

It's not that Kizer cannot continue to improve, he can, but everything seems to be a learning process. In the history of blank slates, I am hard pressed to think of a blanker one.

Today I saw continued improvement in intermediate level QB play for about 3.5 quarters... short touch was better... decision making was better... deep passing? Well, it wasn't worse.

But when we got to crunch time, a fresh, blank slate emerged.

• Holding the ball forever even as he moved nicely out of the pocket to get strip sacked on a third and long when a FG is a good alternative...
• Then with time waning taking a sack a foot from the sideline when a backhand pass OB kills the clock?

Situational football can be taught, can be learned... even ingrained deep enough to be there in crunch time...

... but we don't have the time.

Again.....is he going to become the second coming of Mike Phipps....who just NEVER learned or developed the instincts to not make those stupid plays.

It is why I am all in favor of getting someone else in here.  I don't care if it hurts Kizer's feeling to have to compete.  Just get someone who can play good.   He don't play no good....and I don't know if he can get any gooder. 

@calfoxwc said:

I'm glad you haven't lost your ability to quibble stupidly. I don't see anywhere where favre did that IN COLLEGE, as in, BEFORE THE DRAFT. that is the subject - drafting players who already showed themselves to have serious problems.

  Don't be stupid - extremely confident is not the same as being character flaw asswhole arrogant.  Jimmy Clausen/Rosenare not just arrogant - they have personality flaws and extreme arrogance is part of that.

  I'm talking degrees here - having a great sense of humor is not the same as being a practical joker that stupidly gets people injured and no one can stand. You apparently don't know the difference.

You are the one that is being judgmental and being stupidly quibbling. 

You think that Rosen has character flaws.   I say that I don't care because:  A. I am not judgmental.  B. I don't care if he has character flaws....he is not my kid, my friend, my client...I only care if he can play football. If he can do that with or without character flaws...it don't matter to me..as long as he can play.

I don't care if he IS extremely arrogant....IF that arrogance results in him...or any one else, becoming a superior QB for the Cleveland Browns.

YOU can worry about his personal life and his personal flaws if you want.   You can go counsel him or you can ignore him...it means no never mind to me.   If he can bring entertainment and winning to the Cleveland Browns then I don't care.

Yes, I do care IF those "character flaws" affect his ability to play for this team....but only to the extent that if that happens then he can get his butt out of here.  But I am not going to prejudge that potential.   Like JFF....when his character flaws affected the team and his play....Sayonara to him.

That is all that matters to me.    Unless you want to pay me otherwise to be concerned. 

@roycerolls said:

 Using the first overall pick on a running back would not only never happen, but also be the kiss of death for this front office (assuming they survive this season).

The Texans keep losing and it appears their ceiling is 6 wins this season, more likely 5, hopefully 4.  If The Browns have a hard on for Barkley, they can draft him with their second first rounder.  This off season needs to be about finding the QB unless Kizer flips a switch in these last 4 games and plays the Browns out of the first pick by winning 3 games, but we all know that won’t happen. 

I'd be cool with a stud RB in the second round, or minkah/barkley and a QB in the first round.

Just please get rid of Crow, who is essentially blind, and get someone to call the plays who doesn't run it first down up the middle with crow 95% of the time.

The Texans keep losing and it appears their ceiling is 6 wins this season, more likely 5, hopefully 4.  If The Browns have a hard on for Barkley, they can draft him with their second first rounder.  This off season needs to be about finding the QB unless Kizer flips a switch in these last 4 games and plays the Browns out of the first pick by winning 3 games, but we all know that won’t happen. 

We must draft a QB #1. Or take Saquon Barkley, and then trade up a few spots to nab a QB...

Bring in an established vet, or actually draft a good QB with the 1st pick for once

@tacosman said:

they dont have any faith in kizer. wasting a second round pick on him was another miss by this FO, but anyone can see he sucks.

Our FO will take a qb first. Every front office would.  My 3 year old niece would.  this is not a decision.

Yep-first they take a 5th rounder in the 3rd and then a 3rd rounder in the 2nd and they still have the worst 3 QBs in the league.

when gordon was drafted and i was watching the nfl, he friggin blew me away with his talent. too bad other things in his life got in his way of fulfilling not only his dreams and aspirations but also the whole brown's fan base.

i really don't know about kizer. when certain channels show highlights of browns vs. other teams, only highlights are coming from other teams.

yep, kosar was the shite back in the day and MODELL the shrew that he was knew what the F he was doing when drafting a hometown boy. he and sipe are the only 2 QBs i can say i watched and respected as decent to great pros that started for the browns. too young for graham era.

had the chance to draft local kid in trubisky last year who basically did the kosar in saying he wanted to play in cleveland and the FO and whoever else just balked at it like it meant nothing.

flippin disgraceful.

@miktoxic said:

HA!!!! good man. sorry dude, not trying to come at you like that.

i mean you are correct when comparing kizer to other rookies who have taken this league by storm......BUT

my point is, i don't see any one rookie distinguishing himself as some wentz or goff this coming draft. yeah we could draft someone who might be as good (or not) as kizer but if that's the case then just keep kizer. a lot of the bad Sheet he does he does under duress in his own mind because of the spped of the pro level or just plain rookie NFL mistakes (i.e. short or over-the-head throws or bullet passes when he needed just a touch lob toss.....) don't know if it's fixable BUT everyone last year was calling Goff a bust his frosh year when played and yet this year with his head expanded he looks at times like montana.

and then our bone headed FO let's players who might contribute to a win just walk out the door because of analytics. mccown looked like Montana today even though that team sucks as bad as the browns....(well, obviously not).

Don't get me started on the guys we let walk....   (((())))

There's the difference Mik- I do. Re watch that last Kizer interception about 10 times and you'll see my point. Not only was the intended receiver double covered like a blanket- he threw the ball around 10 yards too short. Earlier Potential completion to Gordon- a true Sam Snead "Worm Burner" that had no chance. 

So I ask you- did Bernie ever look like he sucked this bad when he got his chance? FWIW, Gordon is better than anyone Kosar had at WR. While we're at it- Ghoolie pegged Coleman as a bust- and he just might be right. 

@hoorta said:

Mik, here's the difference. the OL on plenty of occasions was giving Kizer time to throw the ball. In the dirt to Gordon or - over his head, out of bounds. Yeah there's more blame to spread around- but I said it from day one. Kizer stinks. 

HA!!!! good man. sorry dude, not trying to come at you like that.

i mean you are correct when comparing kizer to other rookies who have taken this league by storm......BUT

my point is, i don't see any one rookie distinguishing himself as some wentz or goff this coming draft. yeah we could draft someone who might be as good (or not) as kizer but if that's the case then just keep kizer. a lot of the bad Sheet he does he does under duress in his own mind because of the speed of the pro level game or just plain rookie NFL mistakes (i.e. short or over-the-head throws or bullet passes when he needed just a touch lob toss.....) don't know if it's fixable BUT everyone last year was calling Goff a bust his frosh year when played and yet this year with his head expanded he looks at times like montana.

and then our bone headed FO let's players who might contribute to a win just walk out the door because of analytics. mccown looked like Montana today even though that team sucks as bad as the browns....(well, obviously not).

oh and those who think gordon will be rice reborn is like thinking tiger woods will ever be good again.

@miktoxic said:

yep. so does d. johnson. i.crowell. our drugged out WR who people still Sheet in a hat for. our OL (since mack left). our TEs(compared to new NFL standards). our DL. our DEs. our LB corp. our 2 and 3rd line secondary. our coaches. the FO. the owner.

yep kizer sucks. so did Couch who i'm sure you all clapped and laughed at for when he was carted off the field for the 12th time dead and buried because the franchise's inability to build a flipping football team to sustain a rookie QB. wentz, goff, mariota, bortles, carr, stafford, wilson, ryan etc. etc. etc. etc. would be getting blasted by fans such as you who think the onus of this cowpoop organization lands squarely on one player.

why not bitch and cry about a #1 pick who has done squadoosh to help this team win one flippin game cuz he's got hangnail issues? kizer is getting buried left and right with hits that would knock your grandma into next week but nothing to be said about garrett or peppers or crow or d finger johnson, bitonio or any other slab of enept pieces of shite that play on this team. i thought no one could look worse than the colts, bills or bucs this year but i think all those teams won at least one game correct?

so if it is kizer who fans think is the prob then hue jackson and the FO must be the devil.

Mik, here's the difference. the OL on plenty of occasions was giving Kizer time to throw the ball. In the dirt to Gordon or - over his head, out of bounds. Yeah there's more blame to spread around- but I said it from day one. Kizer stinks. 

@hoorta said:

Kizer hasn't even learned the fundamental.. THROW THE BALL AWAY IF YOU'RE OUTSIDE THE POCKET. 

To distill it- KIZER SUCKS. 

yep. so does d. johnson. i.crowell. our drugged out WR who people still Sheet in a hat for. our OL (since mack left). our TEs(compared to new NFL standards). our DL. our DEs. our LB corp. our 2 and 3rd line secondary. our coaches. the FO. the owner.

yep kizer sucks. so did Couch who i'm sure you all clapped and laughed at for when he was carted off the field for the 12th time dead and buried because the franchise's inability to build a flipping football team to sustain a rookie QB. wentz, goff, mariota, bortles, carr, stafford, wilson, ryan etc. etc. etc. etc. would be getting blasted by fans such as you who think the onus of this cowpoop organization lands squarely on one player.

why not bitch and cry about a #1 pick who has done squadoosh to help this team win one flippin game cuz he's got hangnail issues? kizer is getting buried left and right with hits that would knock your grandma into next week but nothing to be said about garrett or peppers or crow or d finger johnson, bitonio or any other slab of enept pieces of shite that play on this team. i thought no one could look worse than the colts, bills or bucs this year but i think all those teams won at least one game correct?

so if it is kizer who fans think is the prob then hue jackson and the FO must be the devil.

@tour2ma said:

Meanwhile back at the thread...

I think we saw today why the answer to the thread title is, "Yes."

It's not that Kizer cannot continue to improve, he can, but everything seems to be a learning process. In the history of blank slates, I am hard pressed to think of a blanker one.

Today I saw continued improvement in intermediate level QB play for about 3.5 quarters... short touch was better... decision making was better... deep passing? Well, it wasn't worse.

But when we got to crunch time, a fresh, blank slate emerged.

• Holding the ball forever even as he moved nicely out of the pocket to get strip sacked on a third and long when a FG is a good alternative...
• Then with time waning taking a sack a foot from the sideline when a backhand pass OB kills the clock?

Situational football can be taught, can be learned... even ingrained deep enough to be there in crunch time...

... but we don't have the time.

Kizer hasn't even learned the fundamental.. THROW THE BALL AWAY IF YOU'RE OUTSIDE THE POCKET. 

@jiggins7919 said:

Man, I don't know about you guys, but I just can't see a way we DON'T draft a QB first overall.  At times today Kizer looked ok, but he's literally made ZERO progress ALL year in the red zone, and I'm completely tired of it.  Now today, the ugly red zone turnovers have reared their ugly heads again, although I'm not sure if his last pick was technically in the red zone.  Regardless, when we have the ball in a position to score, Kizer can't make it happen.  The only TD throw he can somewhat consistently do is the deep seam pass, and he's only done that TWICE.  His other ones were a 3 yard slant to Coleman, a ten yard pass to Britt (Britt slipped a tackle and ran it 15 yards btw), a one-yard looper to Njoku, and a "no-look", across the field, blind-luck 25 yarder to Britt who SOMEHOW made the catch of his life.  That's it, folks.  In ten or eleven games, those are the only TD passes Kizer has to his name.  Oh, he also leads the league with sixteen picks, and several fumbles lost.  And I don't want to hear about how he's got 5 or 6 rushing TD's.  I don't really care.  If we get the ball down to the one yard line, then I'll get excited.

And I really don't want to sound like I expect Kizer to be perfect because I know that's not fair.  But Jesus Christ, can the guy get hot for ONE game?  I understand he had a couple of very nice throws today, but he also missed a few that could've been the difference in the game.  It seems like I say this every week.  Last week Kizer got screwed over by Coleman, but how many times has Kizer missed somebody, especially deep?  I mean, I counted two examples TODAY where Kizer missed potential long gainers, and maybe they could've gone all the way.  Did I mention they were to Gordon?  The one guy who actually MIGHT take it the distance?

Here's what REALLY ticks me off.  It basically comes down to red zone and nothing else.  If you watch the entire game, Kizer actually puts the team in a position to win.  Despite giving up a ton of yards, the defense somehow kept us in it WITHOUT forcing a turnover YET AGAIN.  Anyways, look at Kizer's decisions in the red zone.  Go back and look at every snap he takes just from this game, and include his last drive that ended in a pick.  The play BEFORE the pick, Kizer somehow TAKES A FREAKING SACK!  He's running to his left, has all day to throw it away and save time, but tries a stupid juke move and gets sacked...costing us about 30 seconds.  I seriously don't get it.  And then after that bonehead play, he throws the ball into triple coverage!  How in the HELL does he make that throw?  What I want you to do is go back and watch that pick, I know it hurts, and I want you to pay attention to the bottom of the screen.  I don't know who the receiver is, and I'm not saying he's "open", but we have a receiver with single coverage streaking towards the corner.  It would be a safe pass, a SMART pass, and if it's incomplete, we're still able to kick a FG.  Don't get me started about the Bosa sack-strip.  I'm not in a stable enough mood to discuss it yet.  

To distill it- KIZER SUCKS. 

@nero said:

The good news about Kizer being so bad is that we can be sure that we will draft a QB high next draft. 

Imagine if he stepped up in his game and they got to think ''hey, maybe he's our guy''... Yikes! 

what i saw of the game in passing (as in walking away) is not kizer as the prob.

all you #s fags and guys who propose the brown's defense is some great entity, i can post video right now showing opposing rbs and wrs running through this 'killer' D like a hot knife through butter, every Shmucking week since the 0-0 start of this season. so go ahead and tout this group like they are 11 and 1.

i'd rather have deshone kizer as the brown's qb next year and not reach into this whack-butt qb class considering the past decade of NOT picking (at all, not even really attempting) the classic prototypical rookie who in their sophomore  or junior year has become a NFL stantion. do we really have to name them? and now consider a rosen or darnold as someone that can even sniff their jocks?

why not fix the OL and running game and actually fix this so-called killer D before being worried about some weak, thin-elbowed west coast fag as a saviour of this team next year when you could've had starting pros from A-Z even past 2 years?

btw, if my name was aaron rodgers and had that talent plus banging olivia munn i'd be Socky too. ask sonny jurgensen, mickey mantle, ty cobb, lawrence taylor, david wells or even oil can (smoke crack between innings) boyd how they did intoxicated on the field.

@westside-steve said:

Well it might seem that way but I don't think we have any idea what these guys are going to do. If they actually have faith in DeShone Kizer then the running back and receiver make sense.

WSS

they dont have any faith in kizer. wasting a second round pick on him was another miss by this FO, but anyone can see he sucks.

Our FO will take a qb first. Every front office would.  My 3 year old niece would.  this is not a decision.

@nero said:

What makes no sense is for them to have faith in DeShone Kizer as a franchise quaterback. 

Exactly.   Nice backup.   Not a franchise QB.

@westside-steve said:

Well it might seem that way but I don't think we have any idea what these guys are going to do. If they actually have faith in DeShone Kizer then the running back and receiver make sense.

WSS

What makes no sense is for them to have faith in DeShone Kizer as a franchise quaterback. 

And I really don't want to sound like I expect Kizer to be perfect because I know that's not fair.  But Jesus Christ, can the guy get hot for ONE game?  I understand he had a couple of very nice throws today, but he also missed a few that could've been the difference in the game.  It seems like I say this every week.  Last week Kizer got screwed over by Coleman, but how many times has Kizer missed somebody, especially deep?  I mean, I counted two examples TODAY where Kizer missed potential long gainers, and maybe they could've gone all the way.  Did I mention they were to Gordon?  The one guy who actually MIGHT take it the distance?

Here's what REALLY ticks me off.  It basically comes down to red zone and nothing else.  If you watch the entire game, Kizer actually puts the team in a position to win.  Despite giving up a ton of yards, the defense somehow kept us in it WITHOUT forcing a turnover YET AGAIN.  Anyways, look at Kizer's decisions in the red zone.  Go back and look at every snap he takes just from this game, and include his last drive that ended in a pick.  The play BEFORE the pick, Kizer somehow TAKES A FREAKING SACK!  He's running to his left, has all day to throw it away and save time, but tries a stupid juke move and gets sacked...costing us about 30 seconds.  I seriously don't get it.  And then after that bonehead play, he throws the ball into triple coverage!  How in the HELL does he make that throw?  What I want you to do is go back and watch that pick, I know it hurts, and I want you to pay attention to the bottom of the screen.  I don't know who the receiver is, and I'm not saying he's "open", but we have a receiver with single coverage streaking towards the corner.  It would be a safe pass, a SMART pass, and if it's incomplete, we're still able to kick a FG.  Don't get me started about the Bosa sack-strip.  I'm not in a stable enough mood to discuss it yet.