@the-gipper said:

Or, vice versa.   Maybe he could be a decent HC if he wasn't handling OC duties.

This is the only way it can go with him.   He has to get an OC....

I think it very well may be put to him that that is a condition of his continued employment.  

He, nor anyone else would ever say "OK, I will give up being HC and just do OC duties"   He would have to bring in an OC.   

Who was it that got canned when they would not do that?  Marty? Bill B? Anyone?

Butch Davis comes to mind. He could coach on game day but being GM too was too much. 

Last year when he pulled that fake kick without lining up a kicker really soured me quick. That's not even a HS mistake. Pee Wee league anyone? An OC won't handle the clock either. It may help some but doubt if it would make a big enough difference. 

This is probably the last best chance to win a game this season. Cincinnati sucks big time and we have a legit chance to win this Sunday.  Would I bet on it though?  Nope.

@flyingfooldoug said:

His QB  and clock handling alone tell me he's no pro coach. He should stick to OC. 

Or, vice versa.   Maybe he could be a decent HC if he wasn't handling OC duties.

This is the only way it can go with him.   He has to get an OC....

I think it very well may be put to him that that is a condition of his continued employment.  

He, nor anyone else would ever say "OK, I will give up being HC and just do OC duties"   He would have to bring in an OC.   

Who was it that got canned when they would not do that?  Marty? Bill B? Anyone?

@dutch-oven said:

I don't think Hue has been given a very good hand, but he's not helped himself either.

I think he's a good coach if he's got what fits his plan in place, but not good enough of a coach to improvise with what he has.

Well said - couldn't agree more. When he had talent at Cincy - they went 12-4 the last year he was there.  That's playing gridiron chess with all the attack pieces possible. Cincy dropped to 6-9-1 the 1st year Hue came here (w/2 freebies from Cleveland).  That at least tells me he can coach when he's not asked to be a miracle worker more than a coach.  HOWEVER, that does not excuse his countless screw-ups here when he had golden opportunities in the red zone on momentum building drives Hue aborted all by himself.  Hue was hired to be a HC and he chose to be an OC instead.   This has continued to be at the expense of our offense looking prepared for situational football unfolding.

I confess to thinking we'd see a better version of Hue than we've seen.  In the Jets game, we had a 1st and goal at the 3 yard line and he goes to an option play that looked barley practiced with questionable spacing between his spastic QB and RB/pitchman (Crow).  In a 3 point loss - that type of foolish crap takes the wind right out of the sails for a team that doesn't often get golden opportunities like that.  And then the time running out at Detroit's 2 yard line before the half wreaking of the lack of situational football practiced has me contemplating what we'd be missing if we fired Hue. 

And another time we needed a HC at least somewhat prepared for the defensive phase of the game - Hue decides he'd rather turn down a 3rd and 16 for the inevitable 4th and 1 hard count that only needs 1 volunteer on a winless team to accept.  Sure enough, the DT (Shelton) lining up closest to the football jumps off sides.  Meanwhile, our Kickoff Return unit put something on film last week that someone is bound to tap soon - when all  of our front line has conditioned themselves to turning their head away from the kicking team.  Jax would have recovered that onside kickoff uncontested even if one of their guys wasn't off side.

I keep reading and hearing we can't afford to fire Hue while I'm watching the longest, extended version of offensive football follies I've experienced since I began following this team in the late 60s.  So,  we're going to reward the wrong guy with tenure because we need continuity?  Okay, what unit is looking good on offense?  WRs? TEs?  Running game?  QB?  Anyone seeing us prepared for the situational football kicking Hue right between the lookers? And what's the gotta have philosophy fitting this personnel like a glove  we won't be able to live without?    Is Hue being a HC or just a lousy OC pretending the pinball wizard with a strong arm has EARNED the starting QB job?   That's asking us to buy the same quick sand he bought.  No FREAKIN thanks - and I don't feel like saying FREAKIN if you know what I mean.  The players gotta think he's out of his mind. Once you lose the team - you're a dead man walking... 

Unfortunately, the same hiring criteria (or lack-thereof from owner) always seems to follow the the next firing so there's our continuity...  We can keep Gregg Williams and add a football guy to our FO that at least understands an NFL passing game/era.  And it prolly wouldn't suck if the guy just so happened to run a bunch of QB camps for elite QB prospects in this country for familiarity sake of prospects.   And if the guy is a HOF QB that also knows what Pro Bowl WRs and TEs look like - that wouldn't suck as bad as wasting 24 million $ on Kenny Britt and Dwayne Bowe.  Once upon a time Jimmy was a hero for getting Peyton Manning to visit UT via Jimmy's plane.  When I lived in TN during the span Manning was injured in Indy - Jimmy and Manning we're spotted at UT's homecoming sitting together like you'd expect to see 2 very good friends doing.  I think he'd be a much better addition to our FO than the FO Knucklehead from Indy that consistently refused to draft decent pass protectors for Luck instead of picks like a 180 lb Phillip Dorsett in round 1.  Does it look like I need another cup of turbo-caffeinated coffee? 

@dutch-oven said:

I don't think Hue has been given a very good hand, but he's not helped himself either.

I think he's a good coach if he's got what fits his plan in place, but not good enough of a coach to improvise with what he has.

His QB  and clock handling alone tell me he's no pro coach. He should stick to OC. 

@flyingfooldoug said:

I've pretty much thought of the NFL as a coaches league. The overall talent is pretty close league wide. It takes superior coaching to win consistently. I don't see it in hue at all. 

I don't think Hue has been given a very good hand, but he's not helped himself either.

I think he's a good coach if he's got what fits his plan in place, but not good enough of a coach to improvise with what he has.

@dutch-oven said:

The Browns could very well win one game in two seasons. The godawful first two seasons of the expansion era Browns won five.

An argument could be made that this was inevitable with the type of "from the foundation" rebuild that was implemented, but the "foundation" of the rebuild is the drafts, and the first two under this current administration has been somewhat mediocre at this point.

I've pretty much thought of the NFL as a coaches league. The overall talent is pretty close league wide. It takes superior coaching to win consistently. I don't see it in hue at all. 

@dutch-oven said:

The Browns could very well win one game in two seasons. The godawful first two seasons of the expansion era Browns won five.

An argument could be made that this was inevitable with the type of "from the foundation" rebuild that was implemented, but the "foundation" of the rebuild is the drafts, and the first two under this current administration has been somewhat mediocre at this point.

Not really 

@flyingfooldoug said:

Fans complain..... it's what they do.

The Browns could very well win one game in two seasons. The godawful first two seasons of the expansion era Browns won five.

An argument could be made that this was inevitable with the type of "from the foundation" rebuild that was implemented, but the "foundation" of the rebuild is the drafts, and the first two under this current administration has been somewhat mediocre at this point.

@tour2ma said:

Well in that case staying the course is really easy...

Fans complain..... it's what they do.

@flyingfooldoug said:

What fans? 

Well in that case staying the course is really easy...

@flyingfooldoug said:

The local fan that passed away and in his will, he requested Browns players to be pallbearers at his funeral, just so the team could let him down one last time. And they did. 

Very true story....go complain about that young buck and try to understand an area before getting critical. Makes you look bad.

Was this supposed to make me feel bad?

@wargograw said:

Complaining ones. 

The local fan that passed away and in his will, he requested Browns players to be pallbearers at his funeral, just so the team could let him down one last time. And they did. 

Very true story....go complain about that young buck and try to understand an area before getting critical. Makes you look bad.

@tour2ma said:

At the risk of crossing a humor line (for my first time ever )...

Many here would see a pile of ashes running the Browns as fitting.

Reminds me of one of the poems in Lord of the Rings... 

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.

@flyingfooldoug said:

What fans? 

Complaining ones. 

@texasag1969 said:

Well this is interesting: Hue may be out before season's end.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/Growing-sense-that-Hue-Jackson-is-out-before-Cleveland-Browns-season-ends-110909358?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=171122_152731_Cleveland Browns Newsletter&utm_content=Link&liveconnect=1B-C2-1E-69-15-F3-1E-26-47-C2-FB-AF-1F-3D-14-30171122_152731ClevelandBrownsNewsletter

So, what was the meeting with the players and Hue for? To cheer them up? If somebody has to be gone, I'd prefer Hue than Sashi. 

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/Growing-sense-that-Hue-Jackson-is-out-before-Cleveland-Browns-season-ends-110909358?utm_source=247Sports Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=171122_152731_Cleveland Browns Newsletter&utm_content=Link&liveconnect=1B-C2-1E-69-15-F3-1E-26-47-C2-FB-AF-1F-3D-14-30171122_152731ClevelandBrownsNewsletter

@tour2ma said:

At the risk of crossing a humor line (for my first time ever )...

Many here would see a pile of ashes running the Browns as fitting.

My Dad would approve. He told me he wanted his ashes to be thrown into the Brazos, "So I can flow deep in the Heart of Texas." We took half his ashes and half Mom's and did exactly that under the bridge that goes on the way into College Station. We spread the other halves together in Rocky Mountain National Park overlooking their favorite spot to view the winter grazing grounds of the elk. A cup of his also went behind a marker locating the site of the dormitory he lived in on the A&M campus. He would have liked the fact that we did not ask permission for any of this. Easier to get forgiveness.

@wargograw said:

Ignore the fans; stay the course.

What fans? 

@texasag1969 said:

And from his grave (well really he was cremated) he could likely do a better job.

At the risk of crossing a humor line (for my first time ever )...

Many here would see a pile of ashes running the Browns as fitting.

@boo-fagley said:

The screen name "Jimmy is my Pilot" isnt taken yet. What if Haslam signed up for TBB and asked for input?

What would you guys tell him? Seriously. 

Draft Barkley and Baker Mayfield, Force Hue to get an OC, and add a better talent evaluator to not f#$% up the draft.

@boo-fagley said:

The screen name "Jimmy is my Pilot" isnt taken yet. What if Haslam signed up for TBB and asked for input?

What would you guys tell him? Seriously. 

Ignore the fans; stay the course.

@texasag1969 said:

My father always said the secret of his success with Mobil Oil was going to every employee to get input, use the best ideas and then giving credit to the person who came up with those ideas in front of their peers. That always spurred on even better ideas from guys who just wanted the recognition. He made sure he got out of his office at least two hours a day regardless of how bogged down he was with "paperwork" so he could do just that. He said he even talked to guys on the mid-night watchman shift and occasionally they identified sounds that had changed in the refinery that led them to do preventive maintenance that saved units from "crashing" completely.

There are a host of consultants who make their money like this. Listen to the folks on the floor, take the good ideas and frame up fancy white papers and bill out a cool million. The ideas often were provided by the workers but not implemented until a consultant " came up wit it". 

@tour2ma said:

Sounds like a very cool, "old man", Ag...

He might even have a shot at running The Process as well as Sashi...

And from his grave (well really he was cremated) he could likely do a better job.