@sd_tom said:

You are delusional beyond hope if you think Wentz doesn't elevate any team he plays on.  

All good quarterbacks do just that they handle the ball on every play, set everybody but more importantly make things happen.  

.........and he was a great backup pick to Rodgers on my FL, I still can't believe he was still available! 

@mjp28 said:

Yeah you don't want to measure great teams or players just on championship appearances in any sport but the Giants are 4-1 (from memory) and 1 win in Eli's reign I believe he's got a good streak of games played going now.

These are generalities but some things hold up over time, generally, good steady  ownership, coaching, talent evaluation, QB play and some luck lead to winning.....lack of it leads to where do we pick this year.

Eli has never missed a game since his rookie season and has 2 Superbowl rings. He's not the greatest QB but he's historically the 2nd qb with the longest streak (behind Favre), and he played at an outstanding level in the two SB playoffs. 

He had great defense in both championships, though.

@nero said:

Roethlisberger has had injuries almost every season if I recall correctly. Not season ending, but he's been injured. You'd be better if you mentioned Eli Manning, who is a freak of nature on that aspect. 

Yeah you don't want to measure great teams or players just on championship appearances in any sport but the Giants are 4-1 (from memory) and 1 win in Eli's reign I believe he's got a good streak of games played going now.

These are generalities but some things hold up over time, generally, good steady  ownership, coaching, talent evaluation, QB play and some luck lead to winning.....lack of it leads to where do we pick this year.

@mjp28 said:

Relatively over all those years yes, he just happens to be a freakish horse......if totally healthy they might have even more rings.

Roethlisberger has had injuries almost every season if I recall correctly. Not season ending, but he's been injured. You'd be better if you mentioned Eli Manning, who is a freak of nature on that aspect. 

@flugel said:

And I think Aaron Rodgers (was also mentioned in that injury-free category) and he is on IR for a broken collarbone as we speak. In fairness, I think MJP was meaning how infrequently these guys have missed extended periods of football.

Yes not a washed up backup or out of football all together.  Look at good/great teams throughout history they had some stability at QB or good backups. 

@nero said:

Injury free? Roethlisberger?

Relatively over all those years yes, he just happens to be a freakish horse......if totally healthy they might have even more rings.

@nero said:

Injury free? Roethlisberger?

And I think Aaron Rodgers (was also mentioned in that injury-free category) and he is on IR for a broken collarbone as we speak. In fairness, I think MJP was meaning how infrequently these guys have missed extended periods of football.

@mjp28 said:

To be a perennial winner in today's NFL not just a win it once and done or can't make it team , see Patriots, Packers and yes Steelrz, you need some stability from the top down, good coaching, scouting, talent evaluation, a pretty complete team that just needs the yearly tweaks not yearly overhauls. To really be the absolute best you also need a solid injury free QB, see Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger. 

So where are the BROWNS?  They might be building the nucleus for a good team but still have a few glaring weaknesses.

GO BROWNS 2019?

Injury free? Roethlisberger?

So where are the BROWNS?  They might be building the nucleus for a good team but still have a few glaring weaknesses.

GO BROWNS 2019?

@clevfan4life said:

In fairness to smith he's battling groin and back probs, thats gonna affect ur leverage. He did a decent job against bosa and ingraham....they were around Prescott all day but they never got a clean run at him from that right side

Even without Smith Dak has more talent around him than probably 28 teams. He can get over it. 

@tacosman said:

another ridiculous change the main subject post from one of the sunshine pumpers....

we didn't 'pass' on Prescott any more than we passed on tom brady.  he was a 3rd round pick.

the guy we actually DID pass on in a simple up/down vote is the guy about to win an mvp maybe in his second year....

nobody blames the front office for passing on Dak.  You know this if you werent trollin.  The blame goes to the front office for the guy they missed on at #2 in 2016.....

People have definitely blamed the FO for not taking Dak (people in addition to Tour; mostly Ag).

@mddawg said:

And people also forget he had a DUI just before the draft, if we'd picked him the year after all the Johnny drama Tony Grossi and WKNR would've called the FO dolts. The suspension of Zeke and Bryant's foot injury have revealed Dak to be rather average. He definitely wouldn't have succeeded in Cleveland last year.

Yep. And neither would Wentz. As clevfan said, it's not a 1:1 comparison. 

@tour2ma said:

Smith has been a big factor, but only in so much as it compounded their running woes... which continue.

Dak is not a "star". Never will be among the league elites, but to dismiss  him as a "halfway decent game manager"? C'mon, man. He's a damn good game manager. He's a complementary piece to a complete team. Something clearly Dallas is not. One RB... two receivers... and a D that simply cannot perform with out Sean Lee.

First... Pretty sure 6-3 means we passed on Tom three times more than Dak. I'd think an analytics guy would be able to handle 1st grade math.

Second... I blame our FO for not selecting Dak. How you could not see this guy coming is beyond me.

Third... a pass is a pass is a pass. You want to magnify it because it was a first round pass? Fine. But applying a MVP lens two-thirds of the way into a second season? Not reasonable... not even close to reasonable. Cleve talked about Dak's supporting cast; what about Carson's. It doesn't suck.

And riddle me this... whose play is Carson elevating?

Fourth... really need a term for you Gloom&Doomers... maybe something like Gloom&Doomers.

No one hangs onto a complete team for longer than a few years. One of the easiest ways to get through the lean times is with good QB play. If Dak can't do anything without PB talent at 8 spots around him, he's not very good. 

And he has a lot more than just a RB and two receivers. You know that's an oversimplification. He has a third receiver, pro bowlers at backup RB, and a HoF TE. He has no excuse. 

On Texags the negative guys are called bleeders. Oddly enough, I'm one of the worst ones (which I think adds some credibility to my Browns optimism).

the only reason the pats win the sb last year was because in the 2nd half that falcons pass rush ebbed which gave his little caucasian slot cnts that extra nano sec to get open. We dont have those reveivers or TE's nor the years and years and years that iffensive scheme has been kept stable and honed. 

There are certain posirions on the football field that depend incredibly on other positions. So much so that the same player can have vastly different production on two diff teams

@wargograw said:

He’s a halfway decent game manager. That’s about it. He’s nothing without absolutely filthy elite talent all around him. Dallas has an elite WR1, one of the best WR2s in the league, one of the best slots in the league, best OL, first ballot Hall of Fame TE who can block, and a top 3 back. Even two of their backup RBs have made Pro Bowls. But Zeke’s gone and they’re terrible. Cry me a river 

I was telling some Cowboy fan buddies how overrated he was during the Atlanta game. They of course blamed it on the backup LT. Tyron Smith back today—still couldn’t do anything. 

Smith has been a big factor, but only in so much as it compounded their running woes... which continue.

Dak is not a "star". Never will be among the league elites, but to dismiss  him as a "halfway decent game manager"? C'mon, man. He's a damn good game manager. He's a complementary piece to a complete team. Something clearly Dallas is not. One RB... two receivers... and a D that simply cannot perform with out Sean Lee.

@tacosman said:

another ridiculous change the main subject post from one of the sunshine pumpers....

we didn't 'pass' on Prescott any more than we passed on tom brady.  he was a 3rd round pick.

the guy we actually DID pass on in a simple up/down vote is the guy about to win an mvp maybe in his second year....

nobody blames the front office for passing on Dak.  You know this if you werent trollin.  The blame goes to the front office for the guy they missed on at #2 in 2016.....

First... Pretty sure 6-3 means we passed on Tom three times more than Dak. I'd think an analytics guy would be able to handle 1st grade math.

Second... I blame our FO for not selecting Dak. How you could not see this guy coming is beyond me.

Third... a pass is a pass is a pass. You want to magnify it because it was a first round pass? Fine. But applying a MVP lens two-thirds of the way into a second season? Not reasonable... not even close to reasonable. Cleve talked about Dak's supporting cast; what about Carson's. It doesn't suck.

And riddle me this... whose play is Carson elevating?

Fourth... really need a term for you Gloom&Doomers... maybe something like Gloom&Doomers.

@sd_tom said:

Let's hope Garrett can start looking as good as Bosa (or close to that level) soon. Bosa is awesome to watch, just effects every play, if he can't get sacks, he's getting pressures or drawing flags. The entire OL is like "oh Sheet, where's #99 at?" 

Maybe Ogbah and Garrett will start having the dual threat action like Bosa/Ingram.  I miss Bosa at OSU, but at least we have Nick. 

Im afraid we're gonna have to draft or sign another DE to compliment garrett like bosa/ingram. Nassib and ogbah dont seem like they're gonna be at that level. Its their second year and i can see maybe the smallest most incremental of impeovements. Yesterday i saw bosa break out an inside spin move ala dwight freeney. He disnt get homevwith it but it shows the dude is workin on his craft.....EXACTLY like he was praised for at osu. 

Im sorry i know people are hindsighting in wentz...but in not sure wentz would be sht in cleveland. Esoecially last year he wiykd have been on ir by midseason. But bosa plays a position that more or less is on its own. Yes a great DE diesnt quite impact the outcome of games like a great QB, but we know bosa would be doing here what he's doing with the chargers. Dead horse beaten some more i know

@tacosman said:

another ridiculous change the main subject post from one of the sunshine pumpers....

we didn't 'pass' on Prescott any more than we passed on tom brady.  he was a 3rd round pick.

the guy we actually DID pass on in a simple up/down vote is the guy about to win an mvp maybe in his second year....

nobody blames the front office for passing on Dak.  You know this if you werent trollin.  The blame goes to the front office for the guy they missed on at #2 in 2016.....

And people also forget he had a DUI just before the draft, if we'd picked him the year after all the Johnny drama Tony Grossi and WKNR would've called the FO dolts. The suspension of Zeke and Bryant's foot injury have revealed Dak to be rather average. He definitely wouldn't have succeeded in Cleveland last year.

dallas's o line is struggling with injuries and replacements at nearly every position. Now prescott has to create on his own and he cant that well. 

It's not really that complicated folks. 

~~~HEADLINES~~~

Ever notice on your FL draft boards only a few QBs at the top then loads of WRs, RBs amazing too how with the combo of Rodgers, Elliott as my #1, 2 guys I was kicking azz but without them I'm struggling  (luckily I picked up Wentz as my backup). 

The same concepts are true in the real NFL world only that is for keeps.

@sd_tom said:

Let's hope Garrett can start looking as good as Bosa (or close to that level) soon. Bosa is awesome to watch, just effects every play, if he can't get sacks, he's getting pressures or drawing flags. The entire OL is like "oh Sheet, where's #99 at?" 

Maybe Ogbah and Garrett will start having the dual threat action like Bosa/Ingram.  I miss Bosa at OSU, but at least we have Nick. 

Ogbah is out for the season, so it will be Nassib.  

@nero said:

Well, if you watched the game, for me Dak Prescott was the least of Cowboys' problems. Without Shaun Lee and Zeke, their defense and running game gets exposed. And the Ingram-Bosa tandem is deadly. 

Finally, many in this board don't complain about "passing" on Prescott, but on drafting Kessler before him, when Kessler was ranked as a 5th round pick.

Kessler would have ended in IR in this game against the Chargers. 

Amazing what having a freak rookie NFL leading RB will do especially with a good QB, OL and some decent recievers.....almost anyone can coach that.

Also RBs now are rarely "franchise" the way QBs are more like great later good for a few years and then hopefully you've got a new good RB to plug back into the system.....it is very much a team game.

@wargograw said:

He’s a halfway decent game manager. That’s about it. He’s nothing without absolutely filthy elite talent all around him. Dallas has an elite WR1, one of the best WR2s in the league, one of the best slots in the league, best OL, first ballot Hall of Fame TE who can block, and a top 3 back. Even two of their backup RBs have made Pro Bowls. But Zeke’s gone and they’re terrible. Cry me a river  

I was telling some Cowboy fan buddies how overrated he was during the Atlanta game. They of course blamed it on the backup LT. Tyron Smith back today—still couldn’t do anything. 

Finally someone that agrees with me on the great QBs in the league.  Like I've said in many posts, the best QBs have absolute studs around them.  Otherwise, they're pooping the bed every week (according to many on this board).

Maybe Ogbah and Garrett will start having the dual threat action like Bosa/Ingram.  I miss Bosa at OSU, but at least we have Nick.