@texasag1969 said:

Well counting the last game last year and the first 13 this year, we are now halfway to 0-28.

Didn't you leave a comb or something In Spain that you need to go get?

@marc1971 said:

Let's do better next time and 0-28 all the way.

Maybe "park" the franchise for a few years and start over, again?

Well counting the last game last year and the first 13 this year, we are now halfway to 0-28.

@tacosman said:

nonsense.....we've traded down a couple times(but not all the time), selected some guys in the first and second round that have yet to really shine(obviously garrett will...he was a no brainer pick), selected a few shiny object guys(peppers, a 2nd rd nd qb with a big arm), cut some vets to get real young(but kept some and signed britt). ...iow a lot of the stuff really crappy teams do when they bottom out..if you think thats revolutionary or different you haven't watched enough football.  Thats what tons of nfl teams do.  Every fan base/franchse when they have o get back on track thinks they are doing something different/outside the box.  We'll get better though....its impossible not to. the question is how much better and for what duration....

1. You can watch all the football you want, and it will not give you any better idea of how an FO works.

2. Name another team that has gone all in on a consensus process for player selection headed by a "non-football guy".

3. Again... if you are half the statistician you are pretending to be, then you can predict the how much better for how long.

@tacosman said:

not at all.  It's evidence of a data point that is an outlier.  But thats very different than being able  to attribute that outlier to any special cause.  In the absence of such, that's unlikely to continue over the next decade.

So an outlier is an... wait for it... outlier. Brilliant!

@orion said:

Here's how ya do it:

You take over a 3 or 4 win team that needs a QB badly.  

Then you let four of your better players walk in free agency.

You follow that up by NOT drafting the QB that you so desperately need with your #2 overall pick.  You instead trade that pick to a different team that needs a QB badly (making them one of the better teams in the league in one year's time).

Now, the NEXT year what you do is the exact same thing.  Meanwhile, with the lesser picks that you got in trade you draft rookies to try and fill the holes that you created when you let four of your starters walk when you took over the 3 or 4 win team. 

And finally, with the rest of your draft picks, you let the team lawyer make the final decisions on roster personnel.

.....that, and some bad clock management and game day decisions by your coach oughta' get you to that 1-27 goal.

Let's do better next time and 0-28 all the way.

Maybe "park" the franchise for a few years and start over, again?

@tour2ma said:

Which is evidence of? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? A special cause...

not at all.  It's evidence of a data point that is an outlier.  But thats very different than being able  to attribute that outlier to any special cause.  In the absence of such, that's unlikely to continue over the next decade.

the browns aren't snakebitten.  they arent destined to failure.  They'll get better.  How much better they will get depend on how well their draft picks work out.  Not drafting the likes of kizer, coleman, peppers would help.

Here's how ya do it:

You take over a 3 or 4 win team that needs a QB badly.  

Then you let four of your better players walk in free agency.

You follow that up by NOT drafting the QB that you so desperately need with your #2 overall pick.  You instead trade that pick to a different team that needs a QB badly (making them one of the better teams in the league in one year's time).

Now, the NEXT year what you do is the exact same thing.  Meanwhile, with the lesser picks that you got in trade you draft rookies to try and fill the holes that you created when you let four of your starters walk when you took over the 3 or 4 win team. 

And finally, with the rest of your draft picks, you let the team lawyer make the final decisions on roster personnel.

.....that, and some bad clock management and game day decisions by your coach oughta' get you to that 1-27 goal.

@tour2ma said:

But we are now... and that is what blows up your argument.

nonsense.....we've traded down a couple times(but not all the time), selected some guys in the first and second round that have yet to really shine(obviously garrett will...he was a no brainer pick), selected a few shiny object guys(peppers, a 2nd rd nd qb with a big arm), cut some vets to get real young(but kept some and signed britt). ...iow a lot of the stuff really crappy teams do when they bottom out..if you think thats revolutionary or different you haven't watched enough football.  Thats what tons of nfl teams do.  Every fan base/franchse when they have o get back on track thinks they are doing something different/outside the box.  We'll get better though....its impossible not to. the question is how much better and for what duration....

@tacosman said:

We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years.

But we are now... and that is what blows up your argument.

@browns52 said:

 over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl...

Which is evidence of? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? A special cause...

@nickers said:

It blows my mind that anyone would entertain the idea of bringing any one of these nincompoops back...

here we go brownies here we go ......hic, hic....hahahahahaaaaaa

@tacosman said:

your mistake is thinking that there is some 'special cause' or special case here with this organization.  We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years.   over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl, but betting on that to continue is foolish......in any collection of that many teams and there many different 3 and 4 year cycles over that time(150+), you're going to have a few data points that don't fit in.  Predicting that to continue is just foolish.  That's why we are bound to get better and have some good times.  Or at least not terrible times.  What the duration of those times will be and whether they will be truly good times or just mediocre times is the key question....

I see sunshine pumpers using half-baked generalities and clichés more than anyone else.

Just by virtue of sucking so bad now for so many consecutive years(even the last couple) we've upgraded the roster based on how the nfl awards draft picks.  So we'll get better.

I'm understandably frustrated by some of the recent draft picks....Kizer is a second round pick who absolutely blows.  Corey Coleman was a #15 overall pick(NUMBER 15!!!) who quite frankly even when healthy doesn't look like anything close to a #15 overall wideout pick.  The other wide receiver picks(admittedly lower) were obviously busts.  Peppers was a shiny object name pick at the end of the first round that reeks of what bad organizations do.  I'm not saying I could have done better, but then again I'm not paid to do it....they are, and you get judged by your results.

But we'll get better.  Of that I'm near certain.  The people who say we will continue to suck because "it's the browns" don't know what they are talking about.

sounds like to me with your fluctuations, cycles and data points that you belong on wall st and not telling everyone the browns will get better...christ....

@cdl15 said:

I hate to say it but some of the Browns fans the media and even the owner deserve these two seasons based on the four or five years prior. 

Pushin Holmgren & Company out early, drafting Johnny Manziel, the whole Kyle Shanahan debacle these are a few reasons alone why the Browns, their fans, and especially the media in Cleveland deserve an O- 16 Season

4 or 5 years?

where the F you been since the 70s....URANUS?

@cdl15 said:

I hate to say it but some of the Browns fans the media and even the owner deserve these two seasons based on the four or five years prior. 

Pushin Holmgren & Company out early, drafting Johnny Manziel, the whole Kyle Shanahan debacle these are a few reasons alone why the Browns, their fans, and especially the media in Cleveland deserve an O- 16 Season

The long suffering fans don't deserve 0-16, but Truck Stop Jimmy just might....  I honestly believe he cares- but is just clueless on how to build a winning football organization. Not only NFL- but he's got egg on his face in Tennessee on top of that coaching fiasco with the Vols. He apparently learned nothing from his stint as a minority owner of the Steelers. 

Pushin Holmgren & Company out early, drafting Johnny Manziel, the whole Kyle Shanahan debacle these are a few reasons alone why the Browns, their fans, and especially the media in Cleveland deserve an O- 16 Season

@tour2ma said:

Thanks, but speaking for myself, it's really not a "fan-driven" view... just more of a foresight thing.

Ehhhhh.... true phenomenon that is not universally applicable.

Fits best when outcomes are purely the product of random chance or at least common cause variation. I see it applied often in the stock market for example where in the macro on broad indices like the S&P 500 and Russell 2000, or even sector composites, there is some validity, but that validity decreases greatly as the move to individual companies is made and special causes emerge. You can get real broke real fast looking for poor performing companies to revert to their mean. Common cause variation is a tough case to make for the post-'99 Browns.

Blind faith is stupid. I, and the others members of the "sunshine squad" are not blind... and neither are good statisticians. They would be able to use reversion to the mean to predict future records and duration... within confidence limits of course. But then they would also start from the point of a sound statistical analysis and not half-baked, misapplied generalities.

Folks go with what they know...

your mistake is thinking that there is some 'special cause' or special case here with this organization.  We aren't doing anything revolutionary or different here over the last few years.   over the last 15 years or whatever the browns are certainly an outlier in terms of expected fluctuations/cycles in the modern nfl, but betting on that to continue is foolish......in any collection of that many teams and there many different 3 and 4 year cycles over that time(150+), you're going to have a few data points that don't fit in.  Predicting that to continue is just foolish.  That's why we are bound to get better and have some good times.  Or at least not terrible times.  What the duration of those times will be and whether they will be truly good times or just mediocre times is the key question....

I see sunshine pumpers using half-baked generalities and clichés more than anyone else. 

Just by virtue of sucking so bad now for so many consecutive years(even the last couple) we've upgraded the roster based on how the nfl awards draft picks.  So we'll get better.

I'm understandably frustrated by some of the recent draft picks....Kizer is a second round pick who absolutely blows.  Corey Coleman was a #15 overall pick(NUMBER 15!!!) who quite frankly even when healthy doesn't look like anything close to a #15 overall wideout pick.  The other wide receiver picks(admittedly lower) were obviously busts.  Peppers was a shiny object name pick at the end of the first round that reeks of what bad organizations do.  I'm not saying I could have done better, but then again I'm not paid to do it....they are, and you get judged by your results. 

But we'll get better.  Of that I'm near certain.  The people who say we will continue to suck because "it's the browns" don't know what they are talking about. 

Phukk depudpuller!

Phukk berryboy!

Phukk Hue!

Phukk Jimmah!

Keelhaul all the bastards back to tennessee where they belong. Not a one of them deserves anything from anyone in Northeast Ohio. Just a low life bunch of bums and thieves!

@tour2ma said:

And the Yucs played 14 game seasons those two years...

... and then went 5-11 in year 3...

... and then 10-6 and made the playoffs year 4.

So what's your point?

Hue is historically bad? 1-27 sucks? That just because the Bucs had that track record back in the '70s has ZERO relation to anything the Cleveland Browns of 2017 might do in the future?  I could be dead in 2020? 

... and then went 5-11 in year 3...

... and then 10-6 and made the playoffs year 4.

So what's your point?

but to run down on that to another village that has amenities i need at 9 in the AM when half in the bag....priceless.

best fried rides his victoria like 50 miles from his hometown in elmsford up to mt. kisco and back like 4x a week. it runs parallel (from parkway to path about 20 feet) along one of most dangerous idiot infested roadways in the world. don't know if you remember but the lady who drove on entered pkwy on wrong side of road with 4 kids in minivan and empty handle of vodka and did head on collision that killed everyone on both receiving ends? then her husband said she never drank but blood test came back drunk and high as hell? yeah that one. that's what i deal with daily. i've been through dayton many times back in the day on the back and forth between sandusky and ft. knox and it's like eating fluffly wedding cake to this crap.

nothing comes close to NY assholes on the road. well maybe boston and arizona. lived in all 3. 

@miktoxic said:

i have a 'giant boulder se' hanging from my BR ceiling that i've prob ridden 5-6 times. have a great bike/jogger path right out side my window that goes from yonkers to albany. right overtop the original aqueduct system that brings water down from the fresh water reservoirs. not about biking for me. more about the other assholes who could give a flying f if you lived or died. the crossings from street to path are dangerous yet the millennials act as if there isn't anyone else in the world besides themselves.saw a dude hit and run/killed a baby deer the other day in a 2 lane race coming up the hill where i live. lady yelled at me for not 'scooping' my dog's Sheet up while i'm 50 yards in the woods where the deer, coyotes and other wildlife Sheet for free. what's riding worth if you have to stop every minute to watch some fag stretch in the middle of broadway while people roll their window down and shoot caps in the air?

i'm giving my legcentric bike away so i can just buy this lazy old man gear:

https://www.hsn.com/products/swagtron-swagcycle-folding-electric-bike/8549351

i know i'm cute BUT i can look 'super cute' with this Sheet.

How many miles per battery there Mik?  Got out on a long ride today, looks like the last of the 50 degree weather for awhile. We're very fortunate here in Dayton to have one of the best Rails to Trails systems in the country. Literally 100s of miles, and never have to worry about getting on a road, unless I want to. Though I sometimes do- I can take one of those trails 25 miles out of town, and then it's country road. I can ride for miles and not see a car.  

@orion said:

You really have to have all the wrong people in place to pull something like that off.

It blows my mind that anyone would entertain the idea of bringing any one of these nincompoops back...

You really have to have all the wrong people in place to pull something like that off.

@miktoxic said:

i have a 'giant boulder se' hanging from my BR ceiling that i've prob ridden 5-6 times. have a great bike/jogger path right out side my window that goes from yonkers to albany. right overtop the original aqueduct system that brings water down from the fresh water reservoirs. not about biking for me. more about the other assholes who could give a flying f if you lived or died. the crossings from street to path are dangerous yet the millennials act as if there isn't anyone else in the world besides themselves.saw a dude hit and run/killed a baby deer the other day in a 2 lane race coming up the hill where i live. lady yelled at me for not 'scooping' my dog's Sheet up while i'm 50 yards in the woods where the deer, coyotes and other wildlife Sheet for free. what's riding worth if you have to stop every minute to watch some fag stretch in the middle of broadway while people roll their window down and shoot caps in the air?

i'm giving my legcentric bike away so i can just buy this lazy old man gear:

https://www.hsn.com/products/swagtron-swagcycle-folding-electric-bike/8549351

i know i'm cute BUT i can look 'super cute' with this Sheet.

i hear ya man........Shmucking insane society it has become....i hate texting...will never ever buy an iphone...i had to break down and get my wife one because she was complaining that when she goes to business meetings, she's the only one with a fliptop....guess she has a point there...that is kind of funny...i have a flip top and love it....I also belong to a runners club and all we run are these greenway trails...they are great...no Shmucking cars...awesome....