@the-gipper said:

Sometimes I think you just may be clueless.  You make comments that have nothing to do with the subject you are replying to. You just go off and blabber about something you want to blabber about regardless of the context of the discussion.

To be fair, it's probably difficult to stay on topic when you have to remember what fake account you said what to who. (Or is it "whom"?)

@ghoolie said:

No. Why is there irony in that? Both of them make Kizer look like a moron, and both make the Brown franchise look as idiotic as the 0 - 347 record, while 40% of the fans beg to keep the head coach.  

Sometimes I think you just may be clueless.  You make comments that have nothing to do with the subject you are replying to. You just go off and blabber about something you want to blabber about regardless of the context of the discussion.

@ghoolie said:

100% agreement. Bosa is 100 times the player faggot Myles Garrett is.

One thing I can agree with this guy on. Bosa was better in college, is better now and will always be better than Myles Garrett. 

@the-gipper said:

To carry out an Alannis Morrisette tune:    Isn't it Ironic.....that  the QBs that so many were upset over the Browns passing on are now both on IR...and done for the season:

DeShaun Watson.....aufed.

Carson Wentz....aufed.  

Expectations that they will recover and be good?  Probably....unless Watson turns into RGIV and Wentz becomes a flash in the pan.  

Nevertheless....I still think this team would be ahead if they had followed my suggestion:   take Joey Bosa at #2 last year...and Trubisky this year.

No. Why is there irony in that? Both of them make Kizer look like a moron, and both make the Brown franchise look as idiotic as the 0 - 347 record, while 40% of the fans beg to keep the head coach.  

@tour2ma said:

The point of the myth was about how McCown came to leave, not whether we would have been "better off" with him here.

Josh left to go to a team who offered him the chance to start the entire season. Hue offered him a coaching position. These are not "opinions"... a term with which Gip has a loose relationship.

And you miss the point as you often do. Sure, McCown was a FA.  The point IS about whether or not the Browns would have been better off with him. The point IS that Sashi and Hue made no effort to keep him on here as a veteran QB.

No one is disputing the facts that you state.  That McCown was offered a chance to start elsewhere....is not the issue. Sure that is what he wanted and what he took, since the Browns failed to offer him a similar situation.  The point is that Sachi wanted no part, apparently, of a veteran QB....who could start and who could mentor our young QB(s).  He was so stuck on the issue of age....he forgot about team chemistry, team unity. Just get rid of all the old guys and throw the baby in the water and see if he can learn to swim on his own.  Well...our baby has drowned about 10 times over....and has never gotten better.   And one factor in that may be that he had no decent mentor to tutor him.  (or...he may just sack at it...but he never got the chance to be tutored)

Josh left to go to a team who offered him the chance to start the entire season. Hue offered him a coaching position. These are not "opinions"... a term with which Gip has a loose relationship.

@the-gipper said:

Myth #38...

Again....just in your opinion....which don't count for nothing to no one.  I think more people would agree that this team...and Kizer would have been better off with Josh McCown still here.

I couldn't agree more.  He certainly needs a McCown to sit behind.

@tour2ma said:

We did "draft a QB"... started him from Day 1 to boot. Has Kizer missed a start due to injury of which I am not aware?

You made about a half dozen posts in this thread... one, where you took on Gip about Jordan vs. Crow, was right.

In whose fuyucking opinion? Yours?  We CAN find a better one.

Myth #38...

Again....just in your opinion....which don't count for nothing to no one.  I think more people would agree that this team...and Kizer would have been better off with Josh McCown still here.

@dawg2fan said:

No, but you're making my point.  We don't have the players that BR had, not even close.

I don't recall you making that point....as valid as it is.  You just basically said that if Kizer had sat a couple of games he could have been as good as BR was his rookie season.

  So of course, he could take his team to 13-0.  We can't compare apples to oranges here. 

But you did.  But I will allow for your retraction

Now if BR was on this team exactly as it was, he certainly would have more victories (not that you're implying that). 

That proposition was never put to me.  If we had a rookie BR on this team...I do think we win a few games.

Of course, with our WRs and young TEs, I would give him 5 at most.

OK, sure.

  Kizer is playing better now that we have Josh G and Corey C back.  There's no saying what our record if he had better receivers at the start of the season, but being 21 and thrown into a starting role in the NFL with no one to guide you, you're asking for it.

@send-in-the-clowns said:

Do u think if the Browns had drafted a QB he would have remained healthy?  LOL!  This is like the Tim Couch era but worse.   Dorsey needs to further solidify the OL this off season and draft an OL in the first two rounds  in 2018.  Need to make an attempt to protect the new QB, Rosen from UCLA.

We did "draft a QB"... started him from Day 1 to boot. Has Kizer missed a start due to injury of which I am not aware?

@send-in-the-clowns said:

Disagree,  Browns have a lot of work to do on the OL.   RT is a joke, LG has regressed.  And Thomas is old and now showing he can be injured and on IR.  Draft OL in rounds 1 or 2 and another another in FA. 

You made about a half dozen posts in this thread... one, where you took on Gip about Jordan vs. Crow, was right.

Need to get that BA up or you'll be sent back down to the minors.

Go Indians!

@the-gipper said:

Sashi never should have let McCown go.

Myth #38...

@the-gipper said:

Do you think that if Kizer had sat for the first two games that he would have played on par with BR his rookie season?  Is that truly what you want us all to swallow? 

No, but you're making my point.  We don't have the players that BR had, not even close.  So of course, he could take his team to 13-0.  We can't compare apples to oranges here.  Now if BR was on this team exactly as it was, he certainly would have more victories (not that you're implying that).  Of course, with our WRs and young TEs, I would give him 5 at most.  Kizer is playing better now that we have Josh G and Corey C back.  There's no saying what our record if he had better receivers at the start of the season, but being 21 and thrown into a starting role in the NFL with no one to guide you, you're asking for it.

@dawg2fan said:

Tommy Maddox started the first two games.  Big Ben came in the third game of the season (after Maddox got hurt). He at least got to watch a QB that had been around the league play for a few games.  In other words, he wasn't thrown into the fire.

Do you think that if Kizer had sat for the first two games that he would have played on par with BR his rookie season?  Is that truly what you want us all to swallow? 

I agree that he should have sat.  Sashi never should have let McCown go.  McCown should have been here tutoring Kizer, because for fakakta's sake it seems that no one else here  seems to be doing so. 

@the-gipper said:

Ah...yes, BR did start his first year.   He went 13-0 as a starter.

Kizer, ergo, apparently going to be the anti-Roethlisberger.  He will go 0 and whatever by the time the season is done.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00.htm

Tommy Maddox started the first two games.  Big Ben came in the third game of the season (after Maddox got hurt). He at least got to watch a QB that had been around the league play for a few games.  In other words, he wasn't thrown into the fire.

@mark-o said:

He threw one in the 2nd half and yes....I addressed that one.    Still doesn't change a 14 point lead in the 4th quarter that the QB had a major role in that lead.   Doesn't change the pass to Njoku that hit him in the hands and he dropped that would've been a first down and would've helped run out the clock. 

I'll say it one more time a bit slower.....the interception in OT was horrendous.   Horrible decision...major league rookie mistake and he absolutely should know better.   But..lets just say he eats the ball and gets sacked and we punt on fourth down.    Who actually thinks our defense who gave up 14 fourth quarter points makes the stop in that situation??????

Terrible decision?  yep..   Horrible play...yep again.   Did it lose the game??  not even Shmucking close.

Well I also think Nacua, Hueless and 3G own this too.. I agree with the brunt of what your saying..

@the-gipper said:

I think the Browns do have a much better OL than the Bears...that is part of it.

And just how is Kizer asked to carry a bigger load?   Browns RBs are better than Bears, their receivers are no better...at all.   And like I said...the Browns have a better OL. 

So...just how is Kizer asked to do more....(other than the fact that he plays for Hue....who constantly puts him a bad position due to his play calling)?

Jordan has 2300 yards in his second season (28 games) 

Took Crowell to his 2nd or 3rd week in his 4th season to get that many yards. There is a good chance Jordan passes Crowell in the first week next season if not this year.

@send-in-the-clowns said:

 Do u think if the Browns had drafted a QB he would have remained healthy?  LOL!  

Did you read this before you posted it? We DID draft a QB, and yes he has mostly remained healthy... lol!

@the-gipper said:

So...just how is Kizer asked to do more....(other than the fact that he plays for Hue....who constantly puts him a bad position due to his play calling)?

The parentheses is EXACTLY why he is asked to do more... 

@nickers said:

I guess you missed the Romo styl;e picks he threw.. now what game were you watching?

He threw one in the 2nd half and yes....I addressed that one.    Still doesn't change a 14 point lead in the 4th quarter that the QB had a major role in that lead.   Doesn't change the pass to Njoku that hit him in the hands and he dropped that would've been a first down and would've helped run out the clock. 

I'll say it one more time a bit slower.....the interception in OT was horrendous.   Horrible decision...major league rookie mistake and he absolutely should know better.   But..lets just say he eats the ball and gets sacked and we punt on fourth down.    Who actually thinks our defense who gave up 14 fourth quarter points makes the stop in that situation??????

Terrible decision?  yep..   Horrible play...yep again.   Did it lose the game??  not even fucking close.

@mark-o said:

in the 2nd half?   really?   Did you watch the game?   It was 21-7 in the 4th quarter.   He threw a perfect pass to Njoku on 3rd down late in the 4th and it was dropped.  How is that his fault?  The play in OT...yeah...that was horrendous...but again..who actually thought our defense who had been butt Shmucked for 14 4th quarter points was going to actually make a stop if we didn't score on the first drive of OT?

I guess you missed the Romo style picks he threw.. now what game were you watching?

@nickers said:

Except Kizer turned into Tony Romo in the 2nd half...

in the 2nd half?   really?   Did you watch the game?   It was 21-7 in the 4th quarter.   He threw a perfect pass to Njoku on 3rd down late in the 4th and it was dropped.  How is that his fault?  The play in OT...yeah...that was horrendous...but again..who actually thought our defense who had been ass fucked for 14 4th quarter points was going to actually make a stop if we didn't score on the first drive of OT?

@hoorta said:

Ah "the process". Since I'm a Lord of the Rings geek- Sashi and the guys had one of the palantirs (for you non-fans) a functional crystal ball that could see into the future. 

Kizer redeemed himself (slightly) to my mind in the Packers game. He's earned his 2018 roster spot with that performance. But- as Mark pointed out (and I 100% concur) Deshone can't throw an accurate end zone corner fade to save his life. Just because he's improved doesn't mean we're not drafting another QB high next year. Probably bring in a vet too. Kessler and Hogan are as good as gone. 

Except Kizer turned into Tony Romo in the 2nd half...

@hoorta said:

Ah "the process". Since I'm a Lord of the Rings geek- Sashi and the guys had one of the palantirs (for you non-fans) a functional crystal ball that could see into the future. 

Kizer redeemed himself (slightly) to my mind in the Packers game. He's earned his 2018 roster spot with that performance. But- as Mark pointed out (and I 100% concur) Deshone can't throw an accurate end zone corner fade to save his life. Just because he's improved doesn't mean we're not drafting another QB high next year. Probably bring in a vet too. Kessler and Hogan are as good as gone. 

That's how I see it.  Draft a QB at #1 and quite possibly bring in a vet.  Hogan and Kessler can hit the streets (take PoG with you while you're leaving) and we will hopefully see Vet as the QB1 on opening day and Kizer as the backup and the rookie sitting and watching and hopefuly that works all season.   At some point,  you'd switch the whole order and go with the rookie to start but hopefully not till like December.

@stillmotion said:

Maybe Sashi knew all along and it was a part of "the process".

We may never know

Ah "the process". Since I'm a Lord of the Rings geek- Sashi and the guys had one of the palantirs (for you non-fans) a functional crystal ball that could see into the future. 

@cdl15 said:

Just find it ironic that the Browns fans are giving up on the most talented quarterback they've had since Tim Couch after only 13 games. Yet we had to suffer through multiple seasons of Colt McCoy Johnny Manziel Brandon Weeden Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn. And Kiser's way more talented than all of them, less drama, and harder worker.

Kizer redeemed himself (slightly) to my mind in the Packers game. He's earned his 2018 roster spot with that performance. But- as Mark pointed out (and I 100% concur) Deshone can't throw an accurate end zone corner fade to save his life. Just because he's improved doesn't mean we're not drafting another QB high next year. Probably bring in a vet too. Kessler and Hogan are as good as gone.