@canton-dawg said:

The last time I parked downtown for a game it was $20, and I had to fight traffic and I also had to walk a mile.

For last several years, I drive to the Brook Park rapid station and pay $5 for a round trip ticket...and I get dropped off at the stadium.

If the train came out my way I would consider doing the same.

@wargograw said:

You can’t say “I’m giving Jimmy my money” in the same breath as “Jimmy is losing my money.”

You just like to argue for the hell of it? OK,  how about.... Jimmy is not currently giving me fair value for price paid? Can't understand this is the equivalent of a stock that's hit rock bottom, and is only being held onto for the kids enjoyment when I kick off? See the Fords selling off all their stock in FMC when it tanked to $2 a share? 

@hoorta said:

TC, two thoughts. Regarding the increase in franchise value, that's not anything Jimmy has done. It's "the rising tide raises all the boats."

Second, I'm paying more for beer ($10 ripoff) and my tickets than I was 5 years ago.

The stadium looks empty because a lot of the season ticket holders aren't even bothering showing up for the games anymore. The 100 level is still 100% sold out. As I've tried to explain to War, those seats are being held on to in faint hopes of better days ahead.

You can’t say “I’m giving Jimmy my money” in the same breath as “Jimmy is losing my money.”

@canton-dawg said:

He’s also talking about the value of an NFL franchise. Even though it’s an unrealized gain (or loss) until he actually sells the team.

Not just franchise value. Revenue is steadily increasing year-over-year while overhead isn't rising at a near commensurate rate. It's not like he's turning around and re-investing whatever profit he has into the team to increase the franchise value. He's not pulling a Bezos and reporting a loss each year because he's investing in the future of the franchise. He's pulling a profit, making his money each year and benefitting from the other 31 teams in the league at the same time.

@hoorta said:

TC, two thoughts. Regarding the increase in franchise value, that's not anything Jimmy has done. It's "the rising tide raises all the boats."

Second, I'm paying more for beer ($10 ripoff) and my tickets than I was 5 years ago.

The stadium looks empty because a lot of the season ticket holders aren't even bothering showing up for the games anymore. The 100 level is still 100% sold out. As I've tried to explain to War, those seats are being held on to in faint hopes of better days ahead.

I wasn't saying it was anything Jimmy has done. I'm simply pointing out that it doesn't matter what he does or what we as fans do, he'll still make money.

Could he make more if we were better? Sure. But he's not losing money by any stretch of the imagination. Gate sales are just a tiny portion of the pie.

@canton-dawg said:

The Browns attendance is down roughly 60k annually. Without those asses in the seats, Jimmah can’t sell them $8 beers or $14 cheeseburgers. Not to mention the souvenirs and other trinkets. I share club seats with a couple of friends when I go to a game. There are large sections of the upper concourse that are now vacant and sit dark. You can’t tell me Jimmah is making as much profit as he used to with less fans. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/197355/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

He still can and he still does sell those $8 beers and $14 cheeseburgers. But that doesn't really matter. Comparatively speaking, concession sales are a small part of the pie. Merchandise and gate sales are part of the revenue sharing program, so while "butts in the seats" will obviously have some small effect on overall merchandise sales, it's not nearly as important as its made out to be. 

The only ticket sales that aren't part of the revenue sharing program are club seats and luxury suites. 

The loss of 8k fans per game is actually just a drop in the bucket compared to the money they receive from suite sales, revshared merchandise and ticket sales, and the TV contracts. Let's assume that the average fan is worth $200 per game. Assuming a 60k attendance drop year-over-year, that's a loss of roughly $12mm per year. The NFL distributed $7.8 billion in TV revenue alone last year - about $244 million per team. That's just the television revenue alone. 

I understand your point that more fans = more money. But I'm saying that it really doesn't matter as much as people like to believe. 

@topdawg31 said:

My guess would be San Diego fixes their Shmuckup, and woos them back to SD. LA will only support the Rams

SD isn't wooing anything related to the Chargers back to San Diego unless their is a new family owning the team.     That won't happen and there's very little chance of a new stadium being built in San Diego anyways.  

hey syd do ya spam the board much ?

The new Rams complex is gonna be incredible. 

@hoorta said:

You’re right, the NFL has multiple sources of revenue and the largest is the TV contracts. TCPO is correct in regard to the fact that Haslam will make out like a bandit regardless if anyone shows up to actually watch the game or not, just because of the TV money. However, lack of attendance will hurt his bottom line from a smaller paying audience (but this is small beans when compared to the TV and corporate revenue).

I haven’t looked in several years, but the Browns were consistently in the top 10 in the league in regards to operating income. No small feat when you consider how lousy they’ve been, playing in a smaller market to boot.

@canton-dawg said:

The Browns attendance is down roughly 60k annually. Without those asses in the seats, Jimmah can’t sell them $8 beers or $14 cheeseburgers. Not to mention the souvenirs and other trinkets. I share club seats with a couple of friends when I go to a game. There are large sections of the upper concourse that are now vacant and sit dark. You can’t tell me Jimmah is making as much profit as he used to with less fans. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/197355/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

@topdawg31 said:

Its why we tailgate, by the time I get inside I'm too damn full to buy anything else.

The last time I parked downtown for a game it was $20, and I had to fight traffic and I also had to walk a mile.

For last several years, I drive to the Brook Park rapid station and pay $5 for a round trip ticket...and I get dropped off at the stadium.

@canton-dawg said:

I attend at least one game a year.

Its been a long time since I’ve bought a beer or cheeseburger, would be a more accurate statement.

I tend to do my eating and drinking before and after the game somewhere else.

Its why we tailgate, by the time I get inside I'm too damn full to buy anything else.

@topdawg31 said:

beers are $9.75, been a long time since you've been there.

I attend at least one game a year.

Its been a long time since I’ve bought a beer or cheeseburger, would be a more accurate statement.

I tend to do my eating and drinking before and after the game somewhere else.

@canton-dawg said:

The Browns attendance is down roughly 60k annually. Without those asses in the seats, Jimmah can’t sell them $8 beers or $14 cheeseburgers. Not to mention the souvenirs and other trinkets. I share club seats with a couple of friends when I go to a game. There are large sections of the upper concourse that are now vacant and sit dark. You can’t tell me Jimmah is making as much profit as he used to with less fans. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/197355/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

beers are $9.75, been a long time since you've been there.

@hoorta said:

TC, two thoughts. Regarding the increase in franchise value, that's not anything Jimmy has done. It's "the rising tide raises all the boats."

Second, I'm paying more for beer ($10 ripoff) and my tickets than I was 5 years ago.

The stadium looks empty because a lot of the season ticket holders aren't even bothering showing up for the games anymore. The 100 level is still 100% sold out. As I've tried to explain to War, those seats are being held on to in faint hopes of better days ahead.

He’s also talking about the value of an NFL franchise. Even though it’s an unrealized gain (or loss) until he actually sells the team.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195255/revenue-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/194456/franchise-value-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

The Browns attendance is down roughly 60k annually. Without those asses in the seats, Jimmah can’t sell them $8 beers or $14 cheeseburgers. Not to mention the souvenirs and other trinkets. I share club seats with a couple of friends when I go to a game. There are large sections of the upper concourse that are now vacant and sit dark. You can’t tell me Jimmah is making as much profit as he used to with less fans. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/197355/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195255/revenue-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/194456/franchise-value-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

TC, two thoughts. Regarding the increase in franchise value, that's not anything Jimmy has done. It's "the rising tide raises all the boats."

Second, I'm paying more for beer ($10 ripoff) and my tickets than I was 5 years ago.

The stadium looks empty because a lot of the season ticket holders aren't even bothering showing up for the games anymore. The 100 level is still 100% sold out. As I've tried to explain to War, those seats are being held on to in faint hopes of better days ahead.

@texasag1969 said:

Is the stadium half full or half empty.....................inquiring minds want to know.

It's like the old philosophical argument, "if a tree fell in the forest and no one heard it. Is there really a sound?" 

"If the Browns played a game and no one saw it, was it really a loss?" 

@canton-dawg said:

You’re delusional if you think years of losing hasn’t had an impact on their bottom line.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195255/revenue-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/194456/franchise-value-of-the-cleveland-browns-since-2006/

@the-gipper said:

And they have been a fairly successful team....at least .500 no?

But OH!....when they get the new stadium that the Rams and Chargers will share...that will fix everything in LA!

My guess would be San Diego fixes their Shmuckup, and woos them back to SD. LA will only support the Rams

@topdawg31 said:

and sadly the Chargers can't sell out a 25,000 seat stadium. How does the NFL fix that?

And they have been a fairly successful team....at least .500 no?

But OH!....when they get the new stadium that the Rams and Chargers will share...that will fix everything in LA!

@the-gipper said:

There may be something to it being about optics.  The NFL does not want to see empty stadiums on TV.  That is what is happening to the Browns.....and even if that situation is costing the NFL   a farthing they care about it.  (Who else cares so much about money than the NFL).

and sadly the Chargers can't sell out a 25,000 seat stadium. How does the NFL fix that?

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Gate sales are part of the NFL revshare program. So no, Jimmy hasn’t really lost anything at all.

The Browns franchise has increased in value since he bought it so the idea that you guys think you can have any effect whatsoever on his profits is hilarious.

I will say it again - Jimmy doesn’t care that the old fogey fans stop going to the game.  We could sell zero tickets and he’d still make money. We could operate at 30% capacity for years and he’d still make money. 

Hate to break it to you, but this idea that boycotting the team will cause some wide-eyed cathartic realization is dumb.

There may be something to it being about optics.  The NFL does not want to see empty stadiums on TV.  That is what is happening to the Browns.....and even if that situation is costing the NFL   a farthing they care about it.  (Who else cares so much about money than the NFL).

@wargograw said:

Have you seen this team? The fact that people even go to games at all at this point (as I've argued with Hoorta) is a testament to the fact Jimmy isn't losing them.

You’re delusional if you think years of losing hasn’t had an impact on their bottom line.

@canton-dawg said:

Did you happen to notice all of those empty seats?

Have you seen this team? The fact that people even go to games at all at this point (as I've argued with Hoorta) is a testament to the fact Jimmy isn't losing them.

@d-bone said:

Really? 

1) I didn't know that Jimmy takes a cut from The Browns Board..... Glad you set us straight.

2) All those empty seats and plummeting season ticket renewals...... and yet "Jimmy hasn't lost a thing"

3) All those empty seats resulting in lost parking revenue and concession sales..... and yet "Jimmy hasn't lost a thing"

4) People like me who didn't see a SINGLE phucking Browns snap last week for the 1st time since 1980ish....... and not because I was away from my TV, but because I watched EVERY single Rams snap instead..... and yet "Jimmy hasn't lost a thing"

5) People like me who no longer give a  s h i t  about this team, and while some will come back if the Browns ever resemble a real NFL team again, most of us will never come back because life is too short to to waste any more time and energy with this embarrassing "pro" sports franchise...... and yet "Jimmy hasn't lost a thing"

Yep Jimmy, you're doing great....... keep it up..... we'll all still be here no matter what..... You haven't lost a thing. 

Did you say something?