@furious-styles said:

Tomlin tripped an opposing during play, has an assistant who pulled an opposing players braids and another assistant who got his hip injured in a bar altercation, a player who injured himself after numerous and repeated strikes with the crown of his helmet, players who clown like a minstrel show after every score....I could go on but you should get the point.

Minus Big Ben its been shown Steelers are ordinary with Tomlin.

I more or less agree with that.    But then I have said that without Brady, BB would basically be above average.  That does not mean that Tomlin is not a good coach. 

But, the fact is....beyond having a franchise HOF type QB....coaching IS the next most important factor in a successful NFL team.   What do yo think Don Shula...or Vince Lombardi, or Tom Landry or Joe Gibbs could do with this team?  

And I postulated that if you gave the Browns Tomlin and BR....and gave the Steelers Jackson and Kizer......what would the difference in the teams be?   Some dumbass Steeler fans think that the Steelers would still be just as good....which just goes to show how palpably stupid Steeler fans are. 

@the-gipper said:

I think Tomlin IS a fairly disciplined HC. He does not make stupid mistakes. He is effective...if not awe inspiring..

Tomlin tripped an opposing during play, has an assistant who pulled an opposing players braids and another assistant who got his hip injured in a bar altercation, a player who injured himself after numerous and repeated strikes with the crown of his helmet, players who clown like a minstrel show after every score....I could go on but you should get the point.

Minus Big Ben its been shown Steelers are ordinary with Tomlin.

@the-gipper said:

I trashed Kyle Shanahan because he came out being a punk woos....not for much else.

Let's take bets on how long it takes him to get Jimmy G hurt in a designed run option play. I say before game 8 he goes at least on concussion protocol.

@the-gipper said:

So...the process IS simple.....its just so very hard to actually pick the ripe fruit off the grocery shelf.

Oh our resident barrister, making life well Its as simple as 1,2,3..... .

.....(oh you forgot the apostrophe on the it's) 

@baconhound said:

Just google first round QBs and do the math.  And while you're at it want you dig up the old threads where you're trashing Kyle Shananhan, ya know the coordinator turned HC who won his last 5 games now that he has a QB.

I trashed Kyle Shanahan because he came out being a punk woos....not for much else.

@the-gipper said:

Hello! McFly! Is anybody home?   No Shite Sherlock.  The point is...yes...it is could in  essence be as simple as going to the NFL Walmart and picking them up.   On the QB front...it is called drafting the right guy.  The Browns have the #1 pick....and if they get a guy like some previous #1 picks....then it is a great thing.    If an Elway, Peyton, Bradshaw, Aikman, Luck etc. is out there....you just pick him off the shelf of the draft. 

And EVERY successful NFL HC started out as some kind of an assistant coach  (except maybe Paul Brown)....So, you just have to pick the right guy.   Yes...it is hard finding that combination of coach/QB....but it can and has been done....even by this team.  Marty/Bernie was a pretty good combo....and we don't even have to mention Otto/PB.

So...the process IS simple.....its just so very hard to actually pick the ripe fruit off the grocery shelf.

Just google first round QBs and do the math.  And while you're at it want you dig up the old threads where you're trashing Kyle Shananhan, ya know the coordinator turned HC who won his last 5 games now that he has a QB.

@baconhound said:

dude every team wants that but it's not that easy as going to the local NFL Walmart and picking them up.  If I could buy the winning powerball ticket I would but sadly you walk in purchase the numbers and hope it works out.  There is a science to the NFL but some of it is unknown.  Mike Holmgren has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know and he did very little to improve this franchise.

Hello! McFly! Is anybody home?   No Shite Sherlock.  The point is...yes...it is could in  essence be as simple as going to the NFL Walmart and picking them up.   On the QB front...it is called drafting the right guy.  The Browns have the #1 pick....and if they get a guy like some previous #1 picks....then it is a great thing.    If an Elway, Peyton, Bradshaw, Aikman, Luck etc. is out there....you just pick him off the shelf of the draft. 

And EVERY successful NFL HC started out as some kind of an assistant coach  (except maybe Paul Brown)....So, you just have to pick the right guy.   Yes...it is hard finding that combination of coach/QB....but it can and has been done....even by this team.  Marty/Bernie was a pretty good combo....and we don't even have to mention Otto/PB.

So...the process IS simple.....its just so very hard to actually pick the ripe fruit off the grocery shelf.

@stinkhole said:

Tomlin inherited a winning culture where players don't have to be motivated or inspired. Putting on that Black and Gold uniform does that to a player, not Tomlin.

The idea that Tomlin and Ben on the browns and they would rickroll the Steelers with regularity is silly.

As much as we dislike the stlrz who went from 1933-1970+ without ever being in a playoff game then:

Rooney ---> Rooney ---> Rooney and   Noll ---> Cowher  ---> Tomlin and yes even Bradshaw ---> (oops period) ---> Roethlisberger sure makes it easy.

Do remember that the stlrz D really started the ball rolling in the 1970s and continued with good drafts (hmmmm current BROWNS? ).

@the-gipper said:

So, in your mutual opinions, getting a quality QB, a quality HC...and a winning atmosphere  lack real life applications? 

They are only lack real life applications because the Browns have been so inept at achieving them....but for most NFL teams, those are in fact the most important things that an NFL team strives for.

But...apparently not for you two See You In Tees? 

dude every team wants that but it's not that easy as going to the local NFL Walmart and picking them up.  If I could buy the winning powerball ticket I would but sadly you walk in purchase the numbers and hope it works out.  There is a science to the NFL but some of it is unknown.  Mike Holmgren has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know and he did very little to improve this franchise.

@tour2ma said:

lol... and that is soooooo Gipper.

So, in your mutual opinions, getting a quality QB, a quality HC...and a winning atmosphere  lack real life applications? 

They are only lack real life applications because the Browns have been so inept at achieving them....but for most NFL teams, those are in fact the most important things that an NFL team strives for.

But...apparently not for you two See You In Tees? 

@baconhound said:

... 3 points that are vague and lack real life application.

lol... and that is soooooo Gipper.

@stinkhole said:

Did ya get this Gip?  Simple as 1,2,3! LOL

Well....it IS Simple as 1,2,3.   But note, I used the word "simple"....not "easy".   Obviously it is not easy for the Browns to get a decent QB and a decent HC.  The roll call of shite we have had in those spots is legion. They keep making wrong choice after wrong choice. 

But it is simple.  If we had had, since 2004, your two guys  BR and Tomlin......yes, it would be the Browns who would have been big winners. 

@the-gipper said:

Yes, it is:  Get a good QB, get a good HC,  Prepare like a winner.  

Or screw up the first two again and prepare to be a whiner and/or a winer.

@stinkhole said:

Did ya get this Gip?  Simple as 1,2,3! LOL

Yes, it is:  Get a good QB, get a good HC,  Prepare like a winner.  

@stinkhole said:

Did ya get this Gip?  Simple as 1,2,3! LOL

There ya go Gip. More proof that leaky condoms and anal sex result in unwanted pregnancy.

@baconhound said:

Easy as 1,2,3

1. Draft a QB #1 that is a sure Hall of Fame player

2. Hire a head coach that has a playbook that can't be defended by any system

3. Never lose another game and win the next 100 Super Bowls

This place never ceases to amaze me.  Internet guys solving the losing woes of an NFL franchise in 3 points that are vague and lack real life application.

Did ya get this Gip?  Simple as 1,2,3! LOL

1. Draft a QB #1 that is a sure Hall of Fame player

2. Hire a head coach that has a playbook that can't be defended by any system

3. Never lose another game and win the next 100 Super Bowls

This place never ceases to amaze me.  Internet guys solving the losing woes of an NFL franchise in 3 points that are vague and lack real life application.

@flyingfooldoug said:

For Christmas

before christmas

@the-gipper said:

I think mine is more big picture.

Yep the macro vs the micro

@texasag1969 said:

My 1, 2, 3 that gets us to 8-8 with the Hueguenot (I love history so there) + OC?

1. An accurate QB

2. Fitzpatrick running the D where it counts most-on the  field. He's not just a great player, he's the defensive QB for Saban. Smart guy that can diagnose plays so we aren't constantly yelling at our TVs every f'n Sunday to "watch for the screen, here comes the TE over the middle, QB draw, etc.".

3. A WR to match JGs skills

Adding more depth @ pass rusher and RB would insure it if all injured players are actually playing injury free for a change. Collins/Ogbah out really hurt us bad and Peppers will be a decent SS.

I think mine is more big picture.

@stinkhole said:

Tomlin inherited a winning culture where players don't have to be motivated or inspired. Putting on that Black and Gold uniform does that to a player, not Tomlin.

The idea that Tomlin and Ben on the browns and they would rickroll the Steelers with regularity is silly.

That is because you are ignorant and stupid.  Yes, Tomlin inherited a winning culture...but it had fuyuckall to do with the uniform...the team name, or  the city they are in or the fans of that team.   It had to do with the ownership and management that is in place.   If he had been a shitstorm of a coach it may have hurt that culture...but he is not a shitstorm.   It also helps to have an HOF quality QB.  If the Steelers had a Bubby Brister quality QB and a Hue Jackson like HC....you would have been the Browns or Bengals.

If you took BR and Tomlin off that team and put them on the Browns....then the ONLY thing we would have had to be concerned about is how badly Jimmy would have fuyucked things up.

But hell...if we had those two here....Randy Lerner may not have decided to sell the team.

@jcam222 said:

Do you really think Tomlin is that good a coach? I don't really see him as an awe inspiring or disciplinary figure. I see him a a guy that inherited a team FULL of talent. A team that HAD a FQB , and many elite players. A coach that lucked into the right situation and wins games. Its why I say coaching is sometimes over rated. Some coaches just fall into the right situation. 

This will be considered heresy but I daresay if Hue Jackson coached the Steelers this past season I'd wager they have a record better than 0 - 16. 

I think Tomlin IS a fairly disciplined HC. He does not make stupid mistakes. He is effective...if not awe inspiring..

@tour2ma said:

So these are not mutually exclusive? If they aren't, then why was the first comment made?

Not sure why you cannot follow simple logic.  JH contributes to the negative culture surrounding this team. Unfortunately, we cannot get rid of him...ergo, hopefully, his negative impact can be restricted...by having a good QB/HC/GM. etc.