<![CDATA[P5 or not P5 That is the question]]> Issues and discussions are being had about some of these QB prospects...and their level of competition, the presumption being that any QB from a non P5 school should perhaps be looked at askance give their level of competition.   

So...should we expect a P5 level QB to be superior than a non P5 guy?    I don't honestly know the answer to that.   All I can do is look at various points of data.

Here is one...very basic...data point.   Hall of Fame QBs.    Which have been from P5 schools...which are not. Note...for this purpose...because it is also designated that way....Independents Notre Dame and BYU are classified as part of the P5 programs.

P5:  27 QBs come from P5 schools:

UCLA:  Aikman and Waterfield

Kentucky:  Blanda

Purdue:  Dawson and Griese

Stanford:  Elway

Oregon: Fouts and Van Brocklin

Northwestern:  Otto Graham and Paddy Driscoll

Duke:  Jurgenson and Clarence Parker

Miami, Fla.   Jim Kelly

Texas:  Bobby Layne

Pitt: Marino

Notre Dame:   Montana

Washington: Moon

Alabama:  Starr, Stabler, Namath

Georgia: Tarkenton

LSU:  Tittle

Louisville: Unitas

BYU: Young

Wisconsin:  Herber

Michigan: Friedman

TCU: Sammy Baugh

NON P5 QBs:   there are 7 of these:

La. Tech:  Bradshaw

So. Miss:  Favre

Navy: Staubach

Norther Iowa:  Warner

Columbia:  Luckman

Washington of St. Louis: Jimmy Conzelman

Colorado College: Earl Clark    (this is not the same as Colorado Univ.)

So...the count is 27 P5 vs. 7 Non P5      So, by this measure.....P5 QBs have almost a 5-1 edge on Non P5 QBs.    20.5% are non P5.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/topic/49186/p5-or-not-p5-that-is-the-questionRSS for NodeFri, 02 Oct 2026 09:00:13 GMTWed, 24 Jan 2018 22:59:34 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Fri, 26 Jan 2018 21:31:56 GMT]]> Obviously, BYU doesn't have a conference. Technically they do however play a schedule that, if gone undefeated through, would put them in the national championship, so I suppose they are P5.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767488https://brownsboard.com/post/767488Fri, 26 Jan 2018 21:31:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Fri, 26 Jan 2018 05:33:56 GMT]]> Gip,

nice thread. Really. You are football intense for sure. God bless ya man.

For me, p5 non p5 doesn't matter. The glaring problem the Browns have is that they continue to purposely not participate in drafting the best playmakers. Sorry, but having 2 #1 picks and coming away with Coleman and Garrett? The Browns have had more high 1st round picks than anyone, for 18 years now, no NFL team has gotten less out of their draft.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767368https://brownsboard.com/post/767368Fri, 26 Jan 2018 05:33:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Fri, 26 Jan 2018 04:17:49 GMT]]>

@tour2ma said:

I'm still freaked when I have to tune to CBS for AFC games...

And FOX didn't even have a real sports division when they got the NFL deal.....and then key CBS talent came over to FOX. NBC later ended up out of professional football! 

Who knew?

 .......To the surprise and shock of many in the sports and media industries, on December 17, 1993, the NFL selected the bid offered by Fox, in the process stripping CBS of football for the first time since 1956.......

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767358https://brownsboard.com/post/767358Fri, 26 Jan 2018 04:17:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:54:07 GMT]]> I'm still freaked when I have to tune to CBS for AFC games...

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767322https://brownsboard.com/post/767322Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:54:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:09:53 GMT]]>

@the-gipper said:

It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX?

Fox didn't exist as a network until the mid 90s.  But yes, certainly you could have pictured the Big Ten on any of the networks.  Why not?

I always pictured the old guard BIG TEN as in the ABC/ESPN family forever......but I guess everything has it's price.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767312https://brownsboard.com/post/767312Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:09:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:07:00 GMT]]> BYU was an independent ala ND for a very long time, wasn't it?

Not surprising that P5s dominate QB production... just as they dominate production of every other position.

The best programs draw the best talent from HS.

The best programs are P5 programs.

QED

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767311https://brownsboard.com/post/767311Thu, 25 Jan 2018 23:07:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:39:58 GMT]]> It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX?

Fox didn't exist as a network until the mid 90s.  But yes, certainly you could have pictured the Big Ten on any of the networks.  Why not?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767250https://brownsboard.com/post/767250Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:39:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:14:21 GMT]]> ........BYU was earning less than $2 million a year through its contract with The MTN, the now-defunct TV network of the Mountain West Conference. BYU has its own cable channel,[13] but had a very restrictive contract which did not allow BYU to broadcast its own football games.[14] The new contract with ESPN will pay BYU an estimated $800,000 to $1.2 million per home game,[15] and allow for greater freedom with its own channel.......

When you talk about P5 or elite college football this is the underlying driving force and has been for awhile now.

It costs money to compete now in facilities, salaries and all the other amenities, it's not just the old ABC and Keith Jackson anymore, did you ever picture the B1G on FOX?

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767246https://brownsboard.com/post/767246Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:14:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:22:49 GMT]]>

Zombo said:

Is BYU considered Power 5?

Zombo

I believe it is....as I said, like Notre Dame.  I will check.  Here is some info:

BYU[edit]

During the conference realignment that saw the university choose football independence in August 2010, some saw BYU as a potential future "Notre Dame of the West". Both are prominent faith-based schools; Notre Dame is arguably the best-known Catholic university in the U.S., while BYU is the flagship university of the LDS Church. The 1984 team's national championship is the most recent by a university that is not a current member of the College Football Playoff coalition.

BYU was earning less than $2 million a year through its contract with The MTN, the now-defunct TV network of the Mountain West Conference. BYU has its own cable channel,[13] but had a very restrictive contract which did not allow BYU to broadcast its own football games.[14] The new contract with ESPN will pay BYU an estimated $800,000 to $1.2 million per home game,[15] and allow for greater freedom with its own channel.

So...I don't know.  I think if they didn't want to be known as "The Notre Dame of the West"...they could join one of the P5.....either the Pac 12 or the Big 12.  

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767231https://brownsboard.com/post/767231Thu, 25 Jan 2018 16:22:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Thu, 25 Jan 2018 14:22:34 GMT]]> Is BYU considered Power 5?

Zombo

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767193https://brownsboard.com/post/767193Thu, 25 Jan 2018 14:22:34 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Thu, 25 Jan 2018 02:53:38 GMT]]> I find that quite interesting from what you think the numbers would show and what they really are. Nice.

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767123https://brownsboard.com/post/767123Thu, 25 Jan 2018 02:53:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Wed, 24 Jan 2018 23:49:45 GMT]]> One Final  Measurement Stat:    the PFR  Career Average stat.    Notes on this:  It is supposed to measure career total production....so longevity counts.  Also.....it is more skewed to more modern QBs because the PFR was not applied before like the late 50s or so.   So you not see the likes of Graham, Baugh, Luckman on here.

What I have done is list simply those QBs that appear in the Top 150 players in Career Average.   I will note first there overall player ranking, school, name:

P5 QBs  who are tops in Career Production Average:

1. Tennessee:  Peyton Manning

2. Michigan: Tom Brady

5. Purdue:  Drew Brees

6. Georgia:  Fran Tarkenton

10. Pitt: Dan Marino

12. Stanford:  John Elway

19. NC State:  Phillip Rivers

T21.  BYU: Steve Young

26. Washington:  Warren Moon

29. Notre Dame:  Joe Montana

33. Oregon: Dan Fouts

45. Cal:  Aaron Rodgers

T54. Ole Miss:  Eli Manning

T54.  Boston College:  Matt Ryan

72. Louisville:  Johnny Unitas

74. Purdue:  Len Dawson

77. Kansas:  John Hadl

T78.  USC: Carson Palmer

T78. Miami Fla:  Vinny Testaverde

T88. Purdue:  Bob Griese

T88. Duke: Sonny Jurgenson

T93. Syracuse:  Donovan McNabb

103. Washington State: Drew Bledsoe

T108. Maryland:  Boomer Esiason

126:  Miami Fla: Jim Kelly

129. NC State: Roman Gabriel

138: Stanford:  John Brodie

NON P5 QBs in the Top 150 of PFR Career Average:

3. So. Miss.   Brett Favre

T21. Miami, Oh.  Ben R.

34. Augustana College:   Ken Anderson

T93:  Milton College:  Dave Kreig

T103: La. Tech:  Terry Bradshaw\

T108: So. Illinois:  Jim Hart

145.  Navy:  Roger Staubach

Bizarrely....these numbers come out exactly the same way as the HOF QB numbers do...even though...as I said, this stat is more geared to more recent times:

There are 27 P5 QBs that appear in the PFR CA Top 150...and there are 7 Non  P5 school QBs  that appear there.  (only Favre, Stauback and Bradshaw are the same here)

To repeat those percentages:  20.5% of  PFR Top 150 QBs are from Non P5 schools. 

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767085https://brownsboard.com/post/767085Wed, 24 Jan 2018 23:49:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to P5 or not P5 That is the question on Wed, 24 Jan 2018 23:19:43 GMT]]> How about another, totally unscientific measure:    Super Bowl Wins by a starting QB:

P5....QBs from these schools   (again, includes ND and BYU)   have 37 SB wins:

Notre Dame:  5....Montana and Theisman

Michigan: 5....Brady

Alabama:  4...Starr, Namath, Stabler

Purdue: 4....Dawson, Griese, Brees

Stanford: 4....Plunkett and Elway

UCLA:  3...Aikman

Tennessee: 2...Peyton

Ole Miss: 2....Eli

BYU: 2   Young and McMahon

Cal: 1: Rodgers

FSU: 1....Brad Johnson

Louisville: 1...Unitas

Washington St.: 1....Rypien

West Virg.  1....Hostetler

Wisconsin: 1....Wilson

NON P5  Super Bowl winning QBs:  have 14 SB wins.

La. Tech.  4....Bradshaw

Miami, Oh...2   Ben R.

Navy: 2...Staubach

Delaware: 1....Flacco

Fresno St:  1....Dilfer

Grambling: 1....Doug Williams

Morehead st: 1.. Phil Simms

No. Iowa:  1...Kurt Warner

So. Miss.:  1...Favre.

So...there were 37 Super Bowl wins by  P5 QBs...and 14 by Non P5 QBs.

This is actually a little better ratio than the HOF numbers:

Non P5  HOF QBs:    20.5%

Non P5 Super Bowl winning QBs:  27.4%

]]>https://brownsboard.com/post/767079https://brownsboard.com/post/767079Wed, 24 Jan 2018 23:19:43 GMT