WSS

The whole thing is opinion-based there isn't any objective criteria that makes one piece of art better than another piece of art and I stand by my opinions of all these films. Sure there may have been a little politically correct undercurrent in the shape of water and I have no doubt he gets extra points for being Mexican from this liberal bunch in the academy. On the other hand the homosexual aspect gained a lot of points for call me by your name. And whoever said it wasn't sexual is out of their mind.

Didn't I admit Phantom thread was extremely well-crafted? I just found out solutely no entertainment value whatsoever and in this particular case didn't care that the story was offbeat or quirky or avant-garde. I just didn't like it.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

2 CALL ME BY YOUR NAME.
A disturbing study of a sexual relationship between a grown man and a teenage boy. The hypocrisy of the academy is staggering in this instance.

3 THE SHAPE OF WATER
It’s hard to accurately describe this wonderfully emotional and engaging story of a mute woman and a sea monster. 

4 DUNKIRK 
Rather slow moving story about the heroic rescue that took place in World War II.

I don't agree with you on call me by your name Steve. I haven't seen it, but Scorsese, Paul Thomas Anderson, and many others were calling it the best movie of the year by far, PTA even said he liked it better than his own Phantom Thread. Luca Guadagnino is rated as the best active living Italian director, and all of my friends from Italy rave about him. I've heard its not sexual at all, not even with a sex scene in it. I would agree comparing it to Kubrick's Lolita. At least Guadagnino and Kubrick make moves about stuff people won't talk about rather than sexually assaulting kids themselves like Woody Allen, and Bryan Singer do.

I agree with you on Dunkirk, I'm not a huge Nolan Fan but the flow and the soundtrack were amazing. Nolan always has a lack of character development, but that didn't matter to me at all in Dunkirk. It was a million times better than shape of water.

The Shape of water was freaking horrible. It made Downsizing seem like Citizen Kane. It's like a twelve year old got the Helen Keller story wrong and watched "Creature from the Black Lagoon" and mixed them up together for a script. It was completely illogical, identity politics/social justice warrior cowpoop that threw in stuff like the mute girls old gay male roommate trying to bang some dude who sold cheesecake, only to get shot down and thrown out. It starts out with the mute girl playing with herself in the bath tub, and the scene she banged the creature in was so beyond ridiculous I almost walked out. Notice that Michael Shannon was the only good part in that film with his performance. But he is portrayed as the all-omnipotent, all-powerful white male who's evil, which is absolutely ridiculous, much like radical feminists blame "the patriarchy" for everything. The black women is "oppressed", the gay man who hits on the cheesecake guy is "oppressed", the communist scientist is the good guy, and they all unite together to destroy the evil white man (Shannon). I liked Pan's Labyrinth, but Shape of Water is the worst Academy Award Winner i've ever seen. And to think, I kept hearing "He's a mexican director and it's superb for him to be recognized". It shouldn't matter what race, gender, sexual orientation, or skin color a director is if they make a great movie. But the sympathy cards need to stop, and films that are "real" and "authentic" need to be recognized.

Phantom Thread is by far the best movie of the year in my opinion. From the absolutely gorgeous shots, to the deep psyche of Daniel Day Lewis' character and his thirst for creativity and inspiration. He's so narcissistic, OCD, and controlling, yet he really yearns for someone to take care of him, and deeply, for someone to love him. Every time he gets poisoned, his creativity resets and he can work again. It's the perfect summary of a relationship when someone can't live with someone, yet can't live without them. PTA is for sure one of the best living directors alive today, but I get why people would get bored by it. Its a film about a dressmaker who likes whores and yearns to be loved, yet moves slowly and has a bunch of complicated riddle like messages. But I'll be damned if it isn't real, authentic, gorgeous to look at, and a cinematic masterpiece. Not to mention the score by Jonny G is absolutely freaking masterful.

As far as social justice I don't think that should be the main concern with whether I think it movie is well done. I think most of Michael Moore's movies do exactly what they are set out to do and are pretty entertaining on their own even though I think they are pure yellow journalism.

I thought Moonlight was a piece of crap but not because of any stupid message about homosexual black people in the hood.

It's hard to say the Texas Chainsaw Massacre doesn't deserve an A since it's one of the two scariest movies I've ever seen.

I didn't give black panther a D or an F I give it a C. 

If it has been set in a mythical land in Eastern Europe with all blonde haired actors speaking with ridiculous fake Scandinavian accents and evil Negroes  oppressing them  in the exact same plot it still wouldn't have been any good.

WSS

I understand that there are going to be movies about social justice, and there are going to be artsy crafty movies.....but why must some of them be excruciatingly void of entertainment value? 

12 Years a Slave....a document on slavery....-0- entertainment value...to me

Phantom Thread...artsy crafty movie....-0- entertainment value...to me.

Dunkirk....reiterates history....but about a 2-3 on a 10 scale of entertainment value.

The Darkest Hour....also a telling of history....but higher on entertainment value because of Oldman's depiction of Churchill.

And, of course, how many movies would never get a sniff at the Oscars....yet could get very high marks on Entertainment value? 

Like, say:  White Chicks.....funnier than it had a right to be.  Probably an 8 on entertainment value. But obviously not a social justice or artsy fartsy affair.

Some really super films combine both:   Social Justice, or Artsy Crafty.....combined with top notch entertainment value.

There you got your Godfathers, your Casablancas, Some others.

Some are pure entertainment with little or no social justice stuff, message stuff.  The Sting, Star Wars movies, etc. 

I know Steve gives grades to movies  A to F I suppose.

I think it may be good to also do a 0-10  system based on pure entertainment value.

And...to be honest....there could be some movies where to so called social justice aspect of it could actually detract from an otherwise very entertaining movie.  (maybe Black Panther fills that fare)

SJW = social justice Warriors.

WSS

@jbluhm86 said:

Tbh, who here today gives two shi.ts about the Oscars? It's not even about the best movies anymore, and it hasn't been in a long while. All it is is just a televised show about actor/actresses sucking each other off about how great they supposedly are and picking winning films based on whatever SJW flavor of the day issue that's currently going on. 

I think you are correct and it's been getting worse every year but still think back to the old sacheen littlefeather debacle with Marlon Brando.

But, maybe just for myself, I've always thought winning an Academy Award for best actor should be one of the greatest honors in the world. Like pitching a no hitter and the 7th game of the World Series or knocking out the heavyweight champion. 

I was a theater major and have been an Entertainer my whole life and oftentimes I will think of huge stars and think to myself oh, hell I could have done that. On the other hand there are really deserving musicians and actors and singers and songwriters Etc of whom I have the utmost respect and freely admit that what they do is in a class by itself. 

Unfortunately more and more the Academy Awards are nominating movies that don't even deserve attention let alone to be selected as the best work of an entire year of theatrical Productions. For instance Daniel Kaluva work is barely good enough for an insurance commercial but Gary Oldman and even the snubbed James Franco turned in stunning performances.

In a lot of cases it's just a matter of personal taste. I might not enjoy a film but think that it's extremely well done, case in point Phantom thread. Other times I firmly believe that a second-rate film gets love from the politically active Academy just because they want to prop up one minority or another. Get out was really a mediocre film.

And that's why people are turning off the Oscars because most of the films nominated never sold tickets at the box office and most moviegoers don't care about propping up whatever stupid social issues the academy wants to pimp.

WSS

@jbluhm86 said:

Tbh, who here today gives two shi.ts about the Oscars? It's not even about the best movies anymore, and it hasn't been in a long while. All it is is just a televised show about actor/actresses sucking each other off about how great they supposedly are and picking winning films based on whatever SJW flavor of the day issue that's currently going on. 

No, to me it is all about the movies, and the performances and which are the best.

The last two evenings I have sat down and watched first, on Monday,  The Darkest Hour, to see Gary Oldman's performance, and then last night to that of Frances McDormand in Three Billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri.  Sam Rockwell...winner of Best Supporting Actor. 

I would likely not have done that had they not won those awards.

Now, as far as the show goes....maybe it it just you who is overly concerned about those issues to the point that that is all you see and take from the program.  You lose focus on what the show is really about because you are personally consumed by the peripheral stuff.   Its like the Black Panther...people so overly concerned about the fact that some minor aspect offends their racial sensibilities that they lose track of the fact that it was a pretty darn good Super Hero story. 

By the way...what is SJW?

WSS

@westside-steve said:

I think you are purposely being obtuse. No idea why that might be.

WSS

What the Fuyuck are you talking about?  I am certainly NOT obtuse to the fact that were some racial overtones to this movie....nor to the fact that some people...both black and white... want to overemphasize those racial overtones....because of their own point of view on race.   They want to ignore the fact that 95% of this movie was just your basic  Superhero origin story meant for entertainment.    I was mildly entertained by it.  While noticing the racial element, I did NOT  think it overwhelmed the story or plot.

@the-gipper said:

I agree that it seems that some people are imputing a racial agenda to the movie that was not really there. 

I think you are purposely being obtuse. No idea why that might be.

WSS

@westside-steve said:

Of course I think Rotten Tomatoes rating system is only the morons that go see the movies. Maybe critics are involved but I'm not sure. I don't know if you saw a black panther but it was ridiculous. The problem is they had cameras up at the Valley View Cinemark interviewing African Americans coming out who were thrilled that finally the truth was being told. 

Don't misunderstand me, it wasn't any worse than most of the superhero movies but it did have it's racial agenda to preach. Had that country bin in Eastern Europe and the natives are blonde folks would have rightly thought of it as a joke.

WSS

I've got a friend I went to school with who is all black panther all the time right now. I had to snooze him on Facebook because it's so obnoxious. 

@westside-steve said:

Of course I think Rotten Tomatoes rating system is only the morons that go see the movies. Maybe critics are involved but I'm not sure. I don't know if you saw a black panther but it was ridiculous. The problem is they had cameras up at the Valley View Cinemark interviewing African Americans coming out who were thrilled that finally the truth was being told. 

Don't misunderstand me, it wasn't any worse than most of the superhero movies but it did have it's racial agenda to preach. Had that country bin in Eastern Europe and the natives are blonde folks would have rightly thought of it as a joke.

WSS

It's all critics. There is a fan rating but only the critical ratings count toward it's final score. 

The real skinny of course is that it's only graded as highly as it is because no one wants to be the guy who says the black people movie was pretty ordinary and not spectacular. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theroot.com/are-white-film-critics-grading-black-panther-on-a-curve-1823166866/amp

@the-cysko-kid said:

Racist! 

Rotten tomatoes has judged black panther the finest film in the history of cinema so that ought to tell you basically where we are. Any movie that's centered around black people is going to be graded on a curve. They actually put black panther as #1 and get out as #5 therefore invalidating the ability to take Rotten Tomatoes seriously for the rest of time. 

https://www.google.com/amp/comicbook.com/marvel/amp/2018/02/20/black-panther-ranked-best-movie-all-time-rotten-tomatoes/

Of course I think Rotten Tomatoes rating system is only the morons that go see the movies. Maybe critics are involved but I'm not sure. I don't know if you saw a black panther but it was ridiculous. The problem is they had cameras up at the Valley View Cinemark interviewing African Americans coming out who were thrilled that finally the truth was being told. 

Don't misunderstand me, it wasn't any worse than most of the superhero movies but it did have it's racial agenda to preach. Had that country bin in Eastern Europe and the natives are blonde folks would have rightly thought of it as a joke.

WSS

Rotten tomatoes has judged black panther the finest film in the history of cinema so that ought to tell you basically where we are. Any movie that's centered around black people is going to be graded on a curve. They actually put black panther as #1 and get out as #5 therefore invalidating the ability to take Rotten Tomatoes seriously for the rest of time. 

https://www.google.com/amp/comicbook.com/marvel/amp/2018/02/20/black-panther-ranked-best-movie-all-time-rotten-tomatoes/

@the-cysko-kid said:

I'm just glad 'get out' didn't win a bunch of awards

No kidding. That was a B movie at best.

The race card they played was unnecessary and the only reason it got any attention. And nominating that kid for best actor was a joke.

WSS

@jppt1974 said:

Once again the Oscars denies that nod to Tom Hanks. Must have some kind of hatred for him? Really very much showing favorites.

JP not sure who you are referring to but in my opinion you can't nominate Tom Hanks for everything he does. I think he's very good in some things okay in others,  but you have to admit most of his characters are the same, and I really didn't think he did anything amazing in the post.

Giving a nomination to the kid from get out was an absolute  PC disgrace. And NOT giving one to James Franco was terrible 

WSS

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