@texasag1969 said:

Not really. "Forced to move" has to mean out of the pocket and Rosen's top asset is his ability to move all around in the pocket and climb it as he senses people closing in.

Agree... much of the time when Rosen is flushed out of the pocket he ends up throwing the ball away so the raw number is not damning. Should be an adjusted number floating around somewhere.

In the age of "get outside the tackle box" I'd be shocked if every QB's "forced to move" numbers aren't similarly depressed.

@logicisforsquares said:

“Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move.”

I had not seen that stat about Rosen. Any of the pro-Rosen folks concerned about that stat? 

I would be curious what the same stat would be for say, Tom Brady. Similar?

Though I would expect that a similar stat for Aaron Rodgers and Ben R. would be much better

@texasag1969 said:

Not really. "Forced to move" has to mean out of the pocket and Rosen's top asset is his ability to move all around in the pocket and climb it as he senses people closing in. He's not a happy feet guy like Darnold and Allen. He makes the pocket work for him just like you want to see out of a pro QB. Mayfield is a tweener in that he tends to stay in it, but quickly will run keeping his eyes downfield as he approaches the LOS.

I think figuring out what they mean by "forced to move" would help things a bit. If they mean when he has to move up in the pocket etc. then I take pause. If they mean, when having to roll out, still not pleased but not shi-tting glass over it. 

@logicisforsquares said:

“Completed just 42.4 percent of his throws when forced to move.”

I had not seen that stat about Rosen. Any of the pro-Rosen folks concerned about that stat? 

Not really. "Forced to move" has to mean out of the pocket and Rosen's top asset is his ability to move all around in the pocket and climb it as he senses people closing in. He's not a happy feet guy like Darnold and Allen. He makes the pocket work for him just like you want to see out of a pro QB. Mayfield is a tweener in that he tends to stay in it, but quickly will run keeping his eyes downfield as he approaches the LOS.

I had not seen that stat about Rosen. Any of the pro-Rosen folks concerned about that stat? 

@tour2ma said:

The one guy who quietly slipped into the top group in this ranking is Calvin Ridley. I thought he belonged, but hadn't been seeing a lot of "lists" putting him in the discussion for our 4th pick.

Glad to see that. I figured Ridley may have been somewhat overlooked due to his QB & not being utilized enough.

Mike

I mean...I think we could use a pure OLB.    We have what I consider to be 3 MLBs playing the 3 LB spots:  Kirksey, Schobert, Collins. 

 

 

 

 

@tour2ma said:

Links work to individual Bio's...

QBs:

Player	Pos	Ht	Wt	College			Grade	Watch
	DARNOLD, SAM	QB	6'4"	220	USC			7.1
	ROSEN, JOSH	QB	6'4"	218	UCLA			6.1
	JACKSON, LAMAR*	QB	6'3"	200	Louisville			6.0
	MAYFIELD, BAKER	QB	6'1"	220	Oklahoma			6.0
	ALLEN, JOSH	QB	6'5"	233	Wyoming			5.9
	FALK, LUKE	QB	6'4"	225	Washington St.			5.6
	RUDOLPH, MASON	QB	6'5"	230	Oklahoma St.			5.6
	WHITE, MIKE	QB	6'4"	225	Western Kentucky			5.2
	FERGUSON, RILEY	QB	6'4"	210	Memphis			5.1
	BENKERT, KURT	QB	6'4"	215	Virginia			5.1
	BRISCOE, JEREMIAH	QB	6'3"	225	Sam Houston St.			5.0
	FLOWERS, QUINTON	QB	6'0"	210	South Florida			5.0
	LEE, TANNER*	QB	6'4"	220	Nebraska			5.0
	SHIMONEK, NIC	QB	6'3"	225	Texas Tech			4.9
	BARRETT, J.T.	QB	6'2"	220	Ohio St.			4.9
	SILVERS, BRANDON	QB	6'2"	218	Troy			4.8
	STEVENS, NICK	QB	6'3"	215	Colorado St.			4.8
	LAULETTA, KYLE	QB	6'3"	215	Richmond			4.8

Top 25:

It appears that they have a few more higher rated players than last year...but last year had more 6.0 rated players.   Last year only one player above 7.0. This year there are 5. 

@the-gipper said:

Getting lazy, or just too busy to look it up? Trubisky 6.31, Watson 5.98, already said Kizer 5.78 

Just was not sure I knew where to find it...but I did. See above.

Yeah, I was typing when you put up those numbers.. sorry about that- I deleted the comment....   

Just was not sure I knew where to find it...but I did. See above.

@tour2ma said:

Always interesting to see the silliness that flows from NFL.com grades...

There is no telling at how these subjective "grades" are arrived. Certainly the comments do not always align with the grades. Here are the opening lines of two different QB prospects' Strength analyses...

• "Has desired NFL size."
• "... impeccable footwork and delivery balance."

I do not "get" how you start the higher ranked guy with a size comment. And the kicker? The "desired size" guy is 6'4 220. The other guy is 6'4 218.

Then there's the straight out inaccuracies. No one who watched Darnold's 2017 tape can say, "Trusts his pocket and keeps eyes down the field." At least they can't say it with a straight face.

See my previous post.   Darnold given a better grade than anyone last year....plus, based on the grade you posted, his 7.1 being far and away better than anyone else of this class.....you would think he would be a No Brainer.....almost Luckish.  But...does anyone really see that in him?  I don't.  I will be honest...I didn't see a lot of him.....and the one time I did...he was getting ragdolled by the Ohio State defense.  Maybe that is not a fair thing to judge him on...but it was the most exposure of him that I saw....and I did not see a No Brainer. At all.

@the-gipper said:

You can Google X-player nfl grade and get answers 

What was Tom Brady? 

Not sure Gip- but you can probably bet it was down in the 5s somewhere.  They changed how they rate players a few years ago. Went from a 100 point scale to  a 10 point scale. When I looked up Andrew Luck, they had him rated as a 97. Does that mean 9.7 on the current scale? If it does, it meant the scouts thought Andy could walk on water.  

@the-gipper said:

You have not seen anyone like Bo Jackson before or since.......but I have.  Before anyway.   Wanna take a guess who I am talking about.  Remember how old I am.

And remember, Ag is older than you.  

@the-gipper said:

Did I see Jim Brown in person...no.  Never went to a game when I was that young....but on TV many times...live.

Was lucky enough to see Jim play many times in person at the stadium. Grandpa held some purchasing power at TRW, and vendors used to schmooze him with Browns & Indians tickets. Plus the guy who lived across the street from him had season tickets, and would give them to us teenage kids when he had to work Sunday.   

Trubisky given a higher grade than anyone this year except Darnold..

PLAYER	POS	HT	WT	COLLEGE	PICK	TEAM	GRADE	WATCH
	Trubisky, Mitchell	QB	6'2"	222	North Carolina	Pick 2, Round 1 (2)	Bears	6.3
	Watson, Deshaun	QB	6'2"	221	Clemson	Pick 12, Round 1 (12)	Texans	5.9
	Mahomes, Patrick	QB	6'2"	225	Texas Tech	Pick 10, Round 1 (10)	Chiefs	5.8
	Kizer, DeShone	QB	6'4"	233	Notre Dame	Pick 20, Round 2 (52)	Browns	5.7
	Peterman, Nathan	QB	6'2"	226	Pittsburgh	Pick 28, Round 5 (171)	Bills	5.7
	Kaaya, Brad	QB	6'4"	214	Miami	Pick 32, Round 6 (215)	Lions	5.5
	Webb, Davis	QB	6'5"	229	California	Pick 23, Round 3 (87)	Giants	5.4
	Kelly, Chad	QB	6'2"	224	Mississippi	Pick 35, Round 7 (253)	Broncos	5.4
	Dobbs, Joshua	QB	6'3"	216	Tennessee	Pick 29, Round 4 (135)	Steelers	5.3
	Beathard, C.J.	QB	6'2"	219	Iowa	Pick 40, Round 3 (104)	49ers	5.0

There is no telling at how these subjective "grades" are arrived. Certainly the comments do not always align with the grades. Here are the opening lines of two different QB prospects' Strength analyses...

• "Has desired NFL size."
• "... impeccable footwork and delivery balance."

I do not "get" how you start the higher ranked guy with a size comment. And the kicker? The "desired size" guy is 6'4 220. The other guy is 6'4 218.

Then there's the straight out inaccuracies. No one who watched Darnold's 2017 tape can say, "Trusts his pocket and keeps eyes down the field." At least they can't say it with a straight face.

@calfoxwc said:

what do I know. It says he has a significant long wind up - I never even noticed. That could account for the many fumbles.

If you watch tape, you cannot help but notice his wind up.

Fumbles? Yes, but also INTs. Longer motion = slower release = better jump by DBs.

@sd_tom said:

So they should take this highest graded player,  but Garrett was a horrible pick even though he was the highest graded player? 

Makes perfect sense 

Early post of the year candidate.

@texasag1969 said:

In person is what I was referring to, but yeah I'd give you Jim Brown.

Man what Jackson could have been without the leg injury!

Did I see Jim Brown in person...no.  Never went to a game when I was that young....but on TV many times...live.

@the-gipper said:

You have not seen anyone like Bo Jackson before or since.......but I have.  Before anyway.   Wanna take a guess who I am talking about.  Remember how old I am.

In person is what I was referring to, but yeah I'd give you Jim Brown.

Man what Jackson could have been without the leg injury!

@nero said:

I haven't found it, but I remember that the top ranked was at most 5.9 or something like that.

That is not how I remember it....in fact, I though Trubisky had been like the highest rated coming out since Luck...or something.

@the-gipper said:

You have not seen anyone like Bo Jackson before or since.......but I have.  Before anyway.   Wanna take a guess who I am talking about.  Remember how old I am.

Bo knows how to play anything and at a high level, best all around athlete I've ever seen. 

Strangly Bo and I had/have the same/similar hip problem his through trama mine through infection the top of the femur.

Avascular necrosis (AVN) of the femoral head is a pathologic process that results from interruption of blood supply to the bone. AVN of the hip is poorly understood, but this process is the final common pathway of traumatic or nontraumatic factors that compromise the already precarious circulation of the femoral head. Femoral head ischemia results in the death of marrow and osteocytes and usually results in the collapse of the necrotic segment.

......That's where our physical comparisons end. 

@the-gipper said:

How do these QBs compare to last year's  top group of QBs in grades.

I have said all along that I believe it is possible that last year may in fact have been the superior class of QBs.  How do they compare?

I haven't found it, but I remember that the top ranked was at most 5.9 or something like that.

@texasag1969 said:

Bo Jackson? Seriously?

I really liked Fornette and thought he would be a good pro, but I got to see Bo Jackson live against my Aggies in the Cotton Bowl. I have not seen anyone like that before or since. Fornette has his power and a 5th gear, but Jackson had some serious speed that on a couple of plays made our very fast defense look like they were swimming in molasses. Fornette had a 4.51 40 at the combine. Jackson says he had a 4.13 and refutes he ran 4.12 as others claim. Now that is just plain world class speed.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=14869826

You have not seen anyone like Bo Jackson before or since.......but I have.  Before anyway.   Wanna take a guess who I am talking about.  Remember how old I am.

@nero said:

I don't agree on that. I repeat: I think the QBs from this draft were so hyped last year, that they didn't live up to the hype. But NOBODY does. 

If they are %100 right on their grades, they would still be way better QBs than any of the ones the Browns had since '99 (maybe Derek Anderson would have a 5 grade?). Say what you want, but not having a major hole in the QB position is HUGE. 

I don't want to upgrade my rushing game from solid to stellar if we don't upgrade first our QB position from very bad to at least acceptable. And make no mistake, this draft is the way to upgrade the QB position, there's no savior coming from the FA or a trade.

How do these QBs compare to last year's  top group of QBs in grades.

I have said all along that I believe it is possible that last year may in fact have been the superior class of QBs.  How do they compare?

@poeticg said:

Saquon's post combine numbers will put him in the 9.4 range

This is a stupid post...but it does bring up one question:

Does this system do a regrade after the combine?